60's epiphone crestwood tremelo

[Gerry Garavaglia]

 Does anyone know how this tremelo works? I just finished refinishing a 60' epi crestwood and the trem arm is missing. The strings go through and wrap under the fulcrum which put a twisting downward torque on the piece where the strings go through. Some sort of spring would neutralize the torque and keep the piece from diving into the guitar top. Looking at pics of original crestwoods (not reissue's) their doesn't seem to be any spring on the trem which seems odd. check the pics and give me some ideas.

any and all input will be appreciated

Thanks Gerry

[Keith]

are you missing a piece or do you have a different version

not sure ,but i did see some others with out the swing arm

kw

[Gerry Garavaglia]

mine is like the second pic ( the first is a reissue) but what keeps the arm up? on mine the piece on the front of the fulcrum will dive right into the guitar top because of the twisting torque of the guitar strings. I am missing the arm. I don't see any spring on the vintage trem.

GG

[Ian Barker]

Just found some good pix of an original here: http://www.mainstreetvintageco.com/guitars/20101115/epiphone-crestw...

They might help you to spot whatever is missing from your assembly.  Note also that the trem arm pivot/attachment point is on the tailpiece side of the roller bridge, not in front of it as per Keith's photo above.  Maybe that's a clue.

[Robbie Collins]

I'm guessing it has some kind of torsion spring:

[Ned Knepp]

Looking at the pictures Ian posted, it looks like there is a bit of metal shining on the right hand edge of the bridge. It's between the side block on the tail piece frame and the bridge. I'm guessing that its something like one of the springs Robbie posted. I'd guess it's wrapped around the roller bar and braced against the bridge. It's probably broken on your guitar. 

[Joshua Levin-Epstein]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-1962-GIBSON-BUILT-EPIPHONE-TREMELO-...

That tremolo was branded "Trem-o-tone'.It's been a long time since I had one in my hands but I am pretty certain there was an internal spring which is either broken (as Ned said) or missing. Also missing is the bracket for holding the missing arm and the "E" from the rosewood insert.

You may wish to block the fulcrum  and call it a day. Or, if you must have a functioning tremolo (isn't that an oxymoron) it might be easiest to buy the complete unit on E-bay.

[Paul Verticchio]

To determine 'what's wrong?', you MUST completely disassemble the trem unit. That will give you the "how" in 'how it works'.

Simply as a 'historical' note: Players hate these trem's and most disable them & 'convert' them into hardtails. 2 reasons: 1.) they're a poor design and 2.) the springs break. I don't have the 'how' of how the conversion is done, but it doesn't look complicated.

I agree with Josh that, if the customer wants the trem operational: go with a vintage replacement that is a known "working unit".

Those are great guitars. I presume you know by now why most buyers and players prefer the tune-o-matic/stoptail version :)

Best of luck :)

[Gerry Garavaglia]

Thanks to all for the good information. I have blocked the trem see pics. Hardwood covered in felt. The spring is missing and the spline seems to be replaced with round stock or it has broken off. I think the customer will take it as is ( doesn't want to put any more $ into it) I just didn't like the fact that the string pressure is pulling up on the trem a bit and pushing the front edge of the trem into the guitar body. 

thanks again

Gerry