fingerboard leveling

[Gregory Hites]

Greetings,  I've got a 1962 Gibson Les Paul Custom (3 pickup SG style body) in my shop for some major repair work including a refret. 

 

It came in with a neck backbow.  I loosened the truss rod completely with the strings at pitch, and the neck straightened but with no relief.  I've removed the frets, and with the truss rod nut completely loose the neck is fairly straight, but still no up-bow.

 

My thought is to tighten the truss rod nut about 1/4 turn then remove a sufficient amount of fingerboard in the upper register to level the fingerboard, so that when the new frets are installed and it's strung up to pitch I'll have a little room to back off the truss rod if I need to add relief.  (Doing this I may need to remove some of the block inlays first and reinstall after leveling?)

 

Any thoughts on this procedure?

 

Be blessed,

littleguitargreg

 

 

[Murray MacLeod]

Your procedure is correct, except that this is a classic case of where you need to use a neck jig imo.

As the egregious Rich Beck says on his website "levelling a Les Paul fretboard without using a jig is like taking a shower with your clothes on --- it achieves nothing"

Or words to that effect ...

[Jim Bancroft]

I'd simplify the job and not do anything with the fretboard, why do more than is needed.

What I would do is place a 2x4 on the fretboard with about 1/16" to 1/8" block in the middle of the fretboard and clamp both ends of the 2x4 to the fretboard, this will put a bow in the neck. Now wrap the neck in a heating pad, turn to medium or high heat and let set for a couple days. This should put some bow in the neck and the ability for the truss rod to adjust it straight or with slight relief.

I stay away from planing, sanding, or removing material from the fretboard if I can help it.

Jim

[Russell Vance]

Yep, that'll do it, but this procedure will take fingerboard out of the middle of the board as the reverse relief dialed in by tightening the truss rod is sanded away. You may wish to consider blending some "drop off" into the higher frets to smooth out the geometry. You also need to allow for some backbow when you refret if the fret slots are going to cause some compression when refretted.

If you are looking for .020 thou relief the blocks shouldn't be a problem, but bear in mind the binding will reflect your new profile from nut to end so don't go in too hard or the binding will look odd.

Also, Don't lean on the fretboard when sanding it other wize Murray's advice will be even more relevant. Try and clamp it up or jig it to get a consistent result.

The acoustic guys seem to like heating up the glue and slipping/creeping the fingerboard as Jim B describes and I guess that is another option. From our point of reference most older electrics in for refretting need the fingerboard re-profiled and flattened anyway due to the generally harder life they lead and if your already doing that you may as well attend to some minor relief work as well.

[Jim Bancroft]

Russell,
Just to set the record straight. The method I described does not get hot enough to soften the glue and slip the joint, I'm not even looking to do that, but when wood is warmed and clamped under pressure as described it will take on the bow that you are looking for. I've used it a number of times and it works fine.
I personally do not like to remove wood from the fretboard as it will thin it some and change the feel, maybe some think that's fine.
Yes, I work mainly on acoustics, but I see no difference between acoustic necks and fret boards versus electric necks.

Jim

[Russell Vance]

Jim,
I don't know so much, but we seem to do a lot of neck refurbishment/reconstruction on electrics and very little on acoustics but that may just be the demographic.

Nevertheless, truing, flattening and (re) radiusing is a common procedure when we refret due to the requirement to have a flat and true fingerboard ready to accept frets. Possibly the higher action and geometry of the shorter necks on acoustics don't require the same degree of attention and as the frets past the 12/14 don't come into play as much - this may account for fingerboards not needing the same degree of attention during refretting. Often acoustic necks simply dispense with the geometry/set-up problems by having a significant drop-of past the 14th fret.

Electric necks often see a lot of action up there and require a relatively complex geometry for some of the more dynamic playing styles. This is not to offend acoustic players who don't go there but simply draw attention to the fact that electric necks are somewhat more complex than the stubbies because they have twice the number of usable frets, a longer scale, a lower action,a longer truss rod, are thinner in cross section and use a lighter gauge string (generally speaking). All this makes life more difficult and accurate re-fretting a challenge. A flattened and radiused board is a prerequisite for all this to take shape.

Probably have to let this one go through to the keeper.

Rusty.

[Jim Bancroft]

Rusty,
Appreciate your opinion.
I think we all do things a little different, and there are a number of solutions that can solve a repair problem.

Jim

[Gregory Hites]

Murray, Jim and Rusty,

Thanks for the advice. Now for some clarification. I would normally not sweat about removing some fingerboard except that this is a vintage piece of high value. So I'm reluctant to remove anymore than is absolutely necessary. Did I mention that it's got Les' signature engraved on the front from back in 1975. There's a photo in the case of him doing it!
So the pucker factor of liability is up a smidge on this one.

I'm diggin' the neck jig idea and as such will endeaver to support it by some home-made fashion here and not purchase one.

Intrigued about shaping with heat Jim, but whoe...leave the heat on for a couple of days!?? What kind of heating pad are you talking about and what temp? Is there any concern about cooking the lacquer finish?

peace,
Greg

[Jim Bancroft]

Greg,
I use a heating pad that you can purchase in a Drug Store for use on the human body. Even at high temp. it won't hurt a guitar.
Just the fact of placing a 2x4 with a thin shim in the middle of the neck and forcing a bow in the neck maybe all you need to free up the truss rod. Make sure you completely back off the truss before doing this.
Like I said before taking material off the fingerboard would be the last thing I would do, if nothing else worked. Personally I like necks with very little relief, maybe .003" to .005", is fine. Even a perfectly straight neck with no relief can work, but you may have to raise the saddle to eliminate buzzing.

Jim

[Gregory Hites]

Thanks for the explanation Jim.

littleguitargreg

[Bob Steinarsson]

Most of the guitars I have refretted have had an up bow with the truss nut loose. This may be because many Norwegian guitarists never dare touching the truss rod on their instruments, and in time, the tension from the strings wins and shapes the neck as it wants. What I do is simply to clamp the guitar according to the problem (up- or down bow). Then I iron it with a normal household iron (take care with plastic inlays). Stroke the frets till the wood on the back of the neck is nice and warm. Leave the clamping till the neck is cool. The neck will then be straight, back-bowed or up-bowed according to how you clamped the guitar. See this link: http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/flattening-a-warped-neck?comm....

[Gregory Hites]

Rusty, Thanks for the confirmation. I did just as I thought I would and supported the neck as shown (if this pic downloads). No problems except for the old dry chippy ebony, but's a story for another day.

littleguitargreg

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

Nice bench! Do you have any pic of your clamping device in the foreground? Does it rotate around the bench leg?