How would i increase break angle on a pinless bridge?

[Hann]

I've read on ramping pin slots on pinned bridges...

my UST is suffering a tad of inbalance but the saddle height's low with a great action. Just that the break angle on the high e is a little flat..

any way to increase that for a pinless bridge without raising saddle height, thus action?

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

Sorry, I didn't find any picture of this. If I can think of it, I'll take one of the next I'll do. Maybe this excerpt of the B-Band manual will describe it in a better english than mine :
A very efficient way is to make the saddle more flexible by modifying it, for example see picture below[ironically, there's no picture!]. Even more efficient it is to cut the saddle into six separate pieces, or to cut it almost through between the strings but leave just a small portion on the bottom side of the saddle, i.e. cut it from the bottom towards the top.

[Tim Mace]

Pierre I like the idea but doesn't it make a bone or brittle material more susceptable to failure?

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

If you're cautious, it shouldn't be a problem : the cuts are between the strings, and for a UST, the saddle should be slipping freely in the groove... two reason that make me believe there's very little forces applied on the bridge in the weak areas when setting/unsetting it.

I'm not sure my english is that good to explain that kind of things!

[Hann]

hmm i think the high e string is passing over not just the saddle but before that it's also in a lil contact with the bridge itself.. not significant but i think it's touching, can't hear the sitar sound yet.. could that be a reason too?

If i just sand that area lightly so the string is no longer in contact could it be better?

[Grahame Myers]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but if the saddle is so low that you're having stringbreak angle problems, with the resulting uneven string response, toneloss etc, maybe it's time to contemplate a neck reset?
From your description of the problem up until now, it almost sounds to me as if the bridge/saddle height has been reduced to try and achieve a reasonable action. Up to a certain point it's ok, but eventually you reach the situation where the only thing that really solves the problem is a neck reset, with a normal height bridge and saddle.
Have you checked the top for loose braces etc? Has the top a belly? How's the bridgeplate?
Could you post some pictures of the bridge/saddle and the action at the 12th fret? Would be a lot easier to give advice if we could see what's going on

[Mark McLean]

I am with Grahame here. You should take one step backwards and ask why the problem exists.

If you need the saddle that low in order to get decent action there is a problem with the geometry of the guitar - which they all get eventually due to string tension. It is either a change in neck angle, elevation/rotation of the bridge due to bellying of the top, actual separation of the bridge from the top, or a combination of the above. If it is entirely the neck angle then it will eventually require a neck reset, which is a major job and I can understand you looking for a quick temporary fix. If there is bellying of the top raising the whole bridge you could fix this with a Bridge Doctor (www.jldguitar.net or have a look at the Stewart-MacDonald site). The Bridge Doctor is cheap and easy to install (easier than filling and redrilling the string holes in the bridge). Sure, you might not want to install one in a vintage Martin but if this guitar doesn't have that kind of vintage value it is a potentially good fix. You might find that it drops the bridge enough for you to put a new taller saddle back in with better volume and tone while keeping the low action. I put one into one of my guitars with a bowing top and it fixed all of the problems.

Just as an aside I wonder if pinless bridges are more likely to cause distortion of the top due to the rotational force when the strings are attached to the trailing edge of the bridge rather than a pinned bridge where they are going through the soundboard to the bridgeplate? Interestingly, Breedlove Guitars (who mostly build guitars with pinless bridges) have started installing the JLD Bridge Doctor in a lot of their guitars as a standard feature.

Good luck
Mark

[Hann]

thanks guys =)

the action is actually not crazily high it's only about 3.8/32" and i'd just like to bring it closer to 3/32" which is what I like.

and the saddle height's pretty normal too, definitely not lower than some other Taylors i've seen around. and it all checks out with the frets.com site about neck angle diagnosis. It's even got more string break angle than my other Taylor..

Just that it's my first time using a UST and I've not much experience with it so after checking flatness of saddle and stuff like that, i could only think it was a string break angle. Cos even with a worse string break angle on another Taylor, the K&K PWM didn't have such balance problems.


Well I'm trying that superglue thingy first and i'll post some pictures.. thanks guys!