Intonation

[Larry Parker]

I am a little confused about adjusting intonation: Some teachers say the 12th fret should right on with the open string (Erelewine), other say due to string vibration, etc. it should be set a little flat (Kent Everett). Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Larry

[John Cadd]

I feel a little embarrased about my very long description but I need to clarify the bit where you adjust the bridge.Think of a nice round cross section top edge,string to the left side .If a horizontal file is used the string will get shorter.---If the file is used from the left (string) side at an angle (45 degrees say) the string will get LONGER.There I feel better already. Problem is the action can be affected but the jobs have to be done in the right order.The job makes it`s own rules and you have to figure out what they are.

[John Cadd]

This is a nice curious corner of the guitar world and it`s good to talk about it more .The running order of jobs should always end up with a guitar that is numero uno in tune or as tuneable as possible. A margin of fine tuning should be allowed for right at the end of the job.After that ,good tone.Playability.Maybe some would always put that in front of tone.Then nice finish.All those have a level of difficulty so some very easy operations should never be skimped,like fitting bone nuts and bridges. I can never see the point of plastic parts in such important areas.Easy for production but no use for a musician.And every player must be regarded as a musician first,no matter how humble.

[John Cadd]

If we compare the tuning of a piano to a guitar,the standard we use today was organised by Bach I believe.There was a fascinating radio demonstration comparing pianos tuned in different temperaments and showing a very distinct musical "flavour "in some keys .This "flavour "was diluted when played in the modern tuning.If you look at all the pieces and what keys they are played in it`s obvious that there are popular keys and unpopular keys.This could be because popular keys are physically easier to play.Or do they throw up fewer tuning problems?On another slant,Bach wrote pieces where you play the "same" note on two strings,not because they will be identical but because the "clash" will be musically interesting.There is not much point doing that on a piano but it works on a violin.Then again the people working hardest at this subject all seem to be playing JAZZ where you are not obliged to play anything you dont want to .So if they enjoy skipping through a minefield cover your ears.(ps I like jazz too)

[John Cadd]

for Danove I have noticed that some open strings when plucked and then damped instantly will leave another string quietly resonating at a different frequency.The thicker strings cause more resonance to thinner strings.I doubt if there is a regular pattern to this behaviour if you move from one guitar to another .Would these resonances throw the tuners(electronic) off the scent OR would our ears perceive a different note than the electronic tuner would register?--I think all these alternatives (You pays yer money and you takes yer choice)would be much better than some plain out of tune guitars we run into.I presume these resonances cause some of that drifting upwards you get when the note begins to fade away.-----If BACH was here now and nailing everybody to the wall with a solo would he know which chords to avoid?????Good one!

[danove]

Better intonation of course add more of beauty to that
inherent reverberation from sympatetic resonances.

As for tuners - I stay away from them.
They seldom agree with me :-]

[John Cadd]

I wonder if Mr Feiten would ever try using his expertise in tuning and reverse the process to copy what that piano demonstration achieved.Most guitarists seem to possess a little collection of guitars so it would be interesting to nominate one or two for particular musical keys .Only to be used for certain compositions.The life story of Jascha Heifetz describes how he altered his tuning for solo,then playing with piano ,then playing with a quartet.The other instruments also adapted their tuning to match.It`s a big problem to solve.

[John Cadd]

I came across a great book this week covering tuning problems and it should be everyones` bible. Title is--------LUTES ,VIOLS & TEMPERAMENTS by Mark Lindley (Cambridge University Press 1984) Library of Congress catalogue 83-5171. This goes back to Equal Temperament in Lutes with gut frets and has juicy phrases like "lack of due diligence in the ear"with chunks of LATIN thrown in (translated) .But will all that catch on with the good old boys in Texas I wonder?

[Tim Mace]

Gourd head and obsess over this subject..The bottom line is if you are messing with the intonation on your instrument get it right or play thru a comptuterized tuning compensating system that does it for you now matter how bad out of tune it is! Too many variables to achieve perfection.........but it is
fun to see how many opnions we have.I may change mine before this gets posted!