Ladder bracing a Weissenborn

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Just started a build a Baritone 27 1/2" Weissenborn style,Tasmanian Blackwood back and sides with King Billy pine top.As a lover of those old Parlor guitars I will use a Floating bridge and tailpiece very lightly braced with possibly ladder bracing.I feel by using low tension strings and tuned down to a low B or possibly low A the top should stand up without any problems.I am a great fan of those old Knutsen ladder braced guitars.Any one with some ideas or comments.Cheers

[Dave Yelverton]

Hi Kelvin
I'm sorry to say I haven't any ideas to offer on the subject. However, I did notice your reference to King Billy pine and if you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a question. A mate is coming over from Taz in a few days time and bringing me a load of blackwood, King Billy and huon to make a batch of OM's and OO's. I haven't worked with either King Billy or huon before. Could you tell me anything about the characteristics of these woods? are they similar to any of the usual s/b woods?

Best wishes

Dave

[Jeff Highland]

I finished a 27" scale weiss 6 months ago QLD Maple B&S King Billy top I keep it tuned to C with 56-16 strings
I used standard weiss X bracing Kept the top a full 125-130 thou no problem. Knutsen used ladder bracing but used a fixed pin bridge not a tailpiece..

[Rory]

My 2 cents- go with x-braces & build a slight arch into them rather than flat cigar box construction. This will counter downward string pressure of a floating bridge & not result in a distorted top over time. I think the 'X' is a much better geometric shape to transfer the downward load than ladder braces. I do flat top (but domed) bouzoukis with floating as opposed to pin bridges. Getting your floating bridge to sit on the edges of that 'X', in my unscientific opinion, that provides a good stable top but also acts as a means to transmit vibrations more effectively out into the whole top-the x brace is like a resonator spider bridge with less spokes on it, if you follow.
The other thing you mention is 'low tension'. Traditionally, I think the slide player is looking for a bit stiffer tension to counter the bar. The only reason I know that lower tension slide strings are now available is to help those with old tender original Weiss'es that cant take heavier gauges. Personally, I find low tension slide setup, its easy too easy to sharpen the note with your bar, the string wants to push down so low. Given you arent fretting a slide guitar with fingers, I dont see the point myself in designing specifically for low tension. Why not build it to take beefier strings & get a beefier tone? To some extent the volume you get will be related to string gauge & tension. I just had to explain to a guy that xtra light gauge guitar strings have around 30% less tension that medium gauge & that you cant expect an instrument to sound the same when you cut out 30% potential energy via lighter strings.

Rory

[Jeff Highland]

Not a great fan of tailpieces on flatops myself.
I tend to agree with Rory on X bracing distributing vibration better.
I built my Baritone weiss with the sides about 1" deeper than standard. I think it helps to support the low notes.
If you are going to be tuning to B you are going to need quite heavy strings but the overall tension will most likely be still low at that pitch consult the charts for the strings you propose. I use the 56-16 on my 25" scale tuned to open D and the same on the 27" tuned to C and would probably go heavier for the C if I had them available.
re the King Billy Pine- treat it like WRC, it is soft and breaks easily if flexed cross grain. I am happy with the sound.
Don't know anyone seriously using Houn for a soundboard, it is denser a bit waxy and considered to have higher damping

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Thanks for the ideas guys ,I am going for a slightly different tonal range than my other Weiss clones hence using King Billy for the top.I have built with deep bodies in fact a teardrop I just finished in Tassy Flame Myrtle was 4 1/4 '' but I do find the "urgency" of the tone changes the deeper the body,certainly the bottom end is stronger but I am not to sure I like the treble as much.The floating bridge is to get that softer attack more cello like ,a couple of old Parlors I have owned possesed a lovely bloom to the attack and the ladder bracing was to free up the top a little more,however I hear what you say and think a lighter X brace with the bridge sitting on the X makes a lotta sense.I don't have any trouble with a lighter gauge string on my laps I find heavy strings sure give more volume and guts but maybe loose touch and dynamics ,for me anyway.Would I still need a heavy bridge plate with this design.Dave, King Billy has been described to me as tonally in between Cedar and Spruce it is quite a soft wood with a lovely pink tinge to it ,at least my top is,as for Huon pine not too sure I know here in OZ we use it for Outside Decking timber.Cheers

[Tim Mace]

Peter Coombe says KB pine IHO is the best mandolin topwood he's used but doesn't hold it
in that high a regard for other instruments but I'd be tempted to.Who carries it since it's
somewhat scarce? Just the nomenclature tickles me!

[Dave Yelverton]

Seems to be a popular wood in Oz.. I've seen quite a bit on eBay but usually from Aussie suppliers, so might be a bit costly.
Dave

[Tim Mace]

Az in Oztralia,Oztria,or Ozwego?

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Australian Tonewoods should be able to get some for you http://www.australiantonewoods.com also Bunya is also a nice timber. Cheers