Learning how to finish?

[Tom Mitchell]

For those of you who are experienced, please recommend some educational resources (DVD's, books, and such) to help me learn the niche skill of guitar finishing / refinishing.  I need to not only learn technique, but I want to understand the technical details and chemistry of the various types of finishes used over the years.

 

I have an assortment of guitars, some recent, some vintage.  So I'll be working with polyester, nitrocellulose, and polyurethane.  I even have a "junker" dumpster dive 60's Kawai acoustic guitar that I plan to completely disassemble (bridge removal, neck removal, binding removal, and so on) so I can make my mistakes early and get them over with, but I have NO IDEA what that sucker is finished with.  I swear the clear coat on the neck joint is 1/4" thick in a few places.  And I know that the diufferent types of finish aren't generally compatible with each other.

 

I know that Stew-Mac has some books and videos on finishing (which I'll probably buy), but they seem to focus mainly on nitrocellulose.

 

Hopefully, there are some "rattle can" solutions that I can use to touch up the polyurethane on the broken peghead repair I need to do on my Epiphone EJ-200CE.  I can see that I'm going to need to buy a "real" buffer, and that's going to cost me.  If I can put off getting the airbrushing setup for a while, my wife may not make me sleep on the couch.  (Or in the shop I'm setting up in the basement/garage.)

 

Please help send me to "Finishing School"!

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

Finishing si something you can't learn easily by yourself. You'll have to try and make mistakes. As far as I know, it's the hardest technique to learn, in comparison with fretting, gluing, inlaying, etc... The stewmac books are a good starting point, even if they mainly focus on lacquers. They will give you schedules, basic understanding of it, and color mixing techniques. Another thing I learned the hard way is that you can't get professional results without professional equipement if you are looking for high gloss finishes you see in the industry. The only techniques you can try with a minimum of material are french polishing and oiling/waxing techniques. Ned Knepp do it that way from what I read in your other thread.

Once again, finishing is a whole job in itself, and it's really hard. Be patient, and be prepared for a lot of trial and errors.

[chris snyder]

Honestly, finishing is not as hard as it seems, once you know what to do and the standers to hold. The hard part is getting that real world knowledge and having the massive resources to do finishing great.

One thing you could try is meeting with local builders and shops. Go to shop tours, take a pen and pad, and ask alot of questions. Most folks/companies are very proud (and they should be) of good finish work. I remember when PRS sent guys over to see what we were doing. Never be afraid to ask someone of better standing of the situation.

Go to local car painters. They use the same techniques as guitar builders. A good car spray shop will surpass any guitar job, small or large company.

Once you get all the info you can, then that is the time to throw the noodles on the wall. If you did every thing "right" some should stick. If not one of them stuck, try, try, try again.

[Paul Verticchio]

+1 on checking out auto painters. Here's why:

A friend of mine's son is a 25 year old guitar player of, um, limited musical talent.  However, he had been spraying cars with his dad since he was 12 and it became a profession for him when he was 18.

Long story short: He took a sunburst MIM Strat body to work with him one day and the next week showed me what I thought was a NOS 1962 Daphne Blue Strat body.  The only difference was that Fender, as good as they are, NEVER ended up with a Strat body as nice as his.

The rest of the info & caveats Pierre & Chirs gave you are dead on.

Best of luck my friend.

[Ned Knepp]

This is just my opinion.

 

I grew up working in my father's cabinet making business and I learned to spray finishes there. I don't think the basics are hard but there are a LOT of details that you need to be aware of and you really need a fairly clean environment a good, dry clean air supply and good tools with which to work. That more than anything is why I have restricted myself to an airbrush and hand finishes. 

 

 I agree with Pierre that finishing is, perhaps, the hardest thing to learn. Most of the other skills I use are either some that I have already learned or are fairly direct and easy to learn. Finishing, while part of the whole wood working thing, it really a completely new set of skills that only really relate to wood working because the results protect what we built. It's not a coincidence that many auto body shops have people that specialize in painting cars. It's also true that most furniture manufacturing facilities have people that do nothing but spray finishes.

 

I'm not saying that you should avoid it because it's certainly do-able but knowledge and practice are the order of the day. For myself, I actually LIKE wipe on finishing. It's pedestrian but it's very satisfying to me. I wish shellac made a harder finish because I really like to watch and feel the finish build as I do it. As it is, I am finding that I need to use a more durable finish on some of my work so I'm experimenting with applying lacquer using a French Polish technique. With some adjustments, so far so good. 

 

[Mark McLean]

Tom

I am no expert.  The only finishes that I have applied have been hand-done oil or shellac.  However, I agree that the real experts are ones that do professional car spraying.  On the Australia/New Zealand Luthier Forum there are these three threads containing the wisdom and experience of Allen McFarlen who is a professional panelbeater (as we call them here) and spraypainter - and also a damn good part-time luthier (for instance - take a look at this). 

How I prepare, spray and buff a guitar

Spraying, and spray guns

Video of spraying lacquer

Even if you are planning to have a go with rattle cans rather than fancy pro spray guns there are some important principles discussed or shown here. 

Good luck with it

Mark

 

[STGuitarworks]

This is the website of a guy that went to the Summit School of guitar building and repair around the same time as I did: http://www.eadycustomfinishing.com/site/?page_id=10

He sprayed finish at Benedetto Guitars for a number of years, now has a business doing repair, refinishing and offers a course on finishing!!

 

Since I dont have an adequate air flow and my 'spray booth' is either the garage or right in the repair shop, I use brush on products. Shellac as sealer, Z-poxy as a pore filler, shellac as a bridge coat, and then brush-on KTM-9 (or outsource a spray-on nitro). 

 

For your poly peghead repair I would suggest superglue!

 

Cheers

 

Sean