Removing nitro-cellulose

[Mac McElwain]

I have just acquired a delicious Gibson Southern Jumbo from 1973. My first Gibson. It is a fabulous instrument. Sonds and plays gorgeous, but has a truly awful black nitro finish which is shot to bits and must come off. I think this is non-standard. I guess it will have to go back to sunburst. I'm a beginner to this refinishing business, so can anyone help by telling me how to get the black nitro finish off without damaging the soundboard, back,sides and binding? Scrape? Strip? How can I treat the soundhole purfling to get the black out from between the circles? And those are my easy questions!

[Russell Vance]

As you are a beginner to the refinishing business (and we all were at one stage) I would suggest you do not start with a potentially good/valuable instrument as even the most benign attempts at lacquer removal can result in significant damage - stripper can burn and stain the soundboard, mechanical sanding can cut through rosettes and thin the top as well as remove binding, thinner used to rub off the lacquer can melt binding etc, and heat guns can set fire (char) just about anything and weaken glue bonds........yep , done most of these but done them on wrecks to see how far I could go (with the exception of the sanding which almost ended in tears). You need to know what kind of Rosette you have - some are quite shallow and some (not necessarily Gibson) are simply decals or ultrathin faux abalony/plastic.
Be careful and research your guitar thoroughly before starting. Rusty.

[Frank Ford]

I think you'll be doing yourself a big favor to get Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Finishing, Step by Step" from Stewart MacDonald. It's a great place to start. . .

[Mac McElwain]

Yep - got it. Also his Repairs book. Hugely valuable resources indeed. I'm finding it great for finishing, but haven't been able to work out the big steps for this refinish yet.

[William F.Eden]

I would have to go with Rusty.Any Gibson I ever refinished I wish I had never seen They are so dam thin it is unreal .If they happen to have a crack you will likely spend the rest of your life trying to get it repaird.This finishing is a nother ball game all togather you need to learn on some thing that isn't worth much.The first f style mandolin I built I had to strip it 3 Times be-fore i got it to look any were near that it should.I have sure learned a lot about finishing sinse then .But having said all that if the guitar is not worth to much to you then be my guest and go a head and make it worth a lot less.This having been said maybe you will turn out to be a hell of a lot better finisher than I was the first time around good luck Bill."""""""

[Mark Dobbins]

close your eyes when you play it and pay close attention to the beautiful tone and ignore the looks

[Ron Frazier]

Mark

Good advice!! Glue up all the cracks and play it. You have character and don't mess with it! You can only make it worth less and sound worse. I have a old Epiphany that is all cracked in the finish in squares and I would not refinish it or trade it for one that was refinished and looked like new. If it is all busted up and in a box then go restore it. I have a 1936 D 28 that was like that. It looked likeWillys guitar but no holes , the neck block and neck was broken all they trough and the sides down to the waist. The frets were almost gone, Some were missing,ad the bridge was about 1/8 inch thick so I started to re glue the the neck and sides and new bridge and before long I had stripped it all down and made it look like new! I was offered by Grewin sight unseen $5,000.00 but I wanted to play it so after the work it is worth above $ 15,000. dollers and I cant take it out to play. I will have to sell it one day to supplement my retirement . I mostly play a 1948 0 martin that is like you say your Gibson and love it every minute!!

Sorry I rambled on.


Ron

[Bill Pillmore]

I am also interested in this topic. Let's suppose I don't have a vintage intstruement but need to strip the top. What is the best way to get a nitro finish off without damaging the soundboard. Scrape? Strip?
Thanks
Bill

[William F.Eden]

Bill if I was refinishing the top of a guitar I would first take the bridge off. Then I would take asatone or lacquer thiners & scrape as much of the finish off as i could with a razer blade. You have to do this more then once .Then I would take the sand paper to it. But here is the important part first get your self some plastic elctric tape & mask the sides with a paper that has a shine finish on it or plastic. And for God sake don't get to close to the edge with the thiners. Bill.""""""""""

[Ned Knepp]

Mac,
You also need to consider what you are going to put back on after you strip the old finish. A good sunburst isn't so easy to do as it may appear. Practicing on something else is a very good idea, even if it's just a piece of plywood.

All that said, if it were mine, I'd keep the original finish unless the guitar is a basket case too.

Ned

[Bruce Herrmann]

Lots of good advice here. There is, even among the pros here, a good chance that when you are finished with the project, you might look back and say that you would have been just as happy with the finish the way it was. Refins are a real challenge to the best of us.
If you must proceed, read everything, get that DVD Frank mentioned and take your time. Mask off the bindings first, no chemicals here, it will probably destroy anything but wood bindings. A good cabinet scraper can do wonders.
If you have to use a stripper, remember you may damage the rosette if you are not careful. Remove the finish over the bindings by hand, i.e. a scraper. Make sure it's sharp and keep it sharp during the procedure. Cover the sound hole. I just made up a little gadget that works great for me. I got a dowel (3/4 inch I think), fit a spring to the bottom of it , cut it to proper body depth and then made a template of the soundhole. I used cardboard but next time will try another material perhaps. Anyway, fold the cardboard in half, screw it to the top of the dowel, fit the length and you've got a great way of keeping things out of the guitars insides. By bending the cardboard in half, you can get it inside the soundhole and it will spring back to the right size. The pressure from the spring keeps the soundhole cut-out tight up against the inside of the guitar and since you've made it a little oversize, nothing gets under it. Works great for me.
Good luck if you go the refin route, keep us posted.
Bruce

[Mac McElwain]

Guys,
Thanks all for such insightful input. What a community. I am in your debt. As a result, what seemed like something I wanted to get onto tomorrow, now has a much longer timeline on it. And yes Mark it does look a whole lot better when I close my eyes! Sage advice indeed.
I will now set out to corner the New Zealand market on clunkers that I can practice on before going anywhere near the SJ (which just gets better every time I play it) I will do nothing to risk this treasure.
Thanks again all
Mac McElwain

[Alys and Simcha]

Mac McElwain wrote
"... will now set out to corner the New Zealand market on clunkers....."

....Hmm....You might have to arm-wrestle me for the last two clunkers :) - I'm teaching Kristen how to colour retouch after repairs.
Hi to a fellow Kiwi. If you are ever in Wellington, please drop into Mojosound in Cuba St, and say hello - I'm usually there Thurs and Fri. Best regards, Simcha.