Shiraki Brace Repair..?

[Andrew]

Hello all. This is my first post on the forum and I think I have a thinker for you. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with Shiraki guitars (you know, the Japanese guitars with the laser cut decorative - and closed off - soundholes) but here goes. There's a nice one (well two actually, but this is the one I like) at my local music shoppe with rosewood sides and back and a spruce top. It sounds great. There's ones problem though. There's a brace loose in it, and I mean loose. Rolling and clunking around freely inside the guitar kind of loose. Of course there's a significant caveat to that nice laser cut soundhole, which is that there's no way to get inside the guitar to fix these kinds of things. To make it even more difficult, I'm pretty sure the finish is a poly, so it's going to be hard to disguise anything you do to get in there.

I'd love to buy this guitar and fix it up for my very own. I really like it. But I haven't been able to think of a solid way to go about fixing it. So I'm up for suggestions, especially from anyone whose had experience with these guitars. I don't wanna go cutting holes willy nilly just to find out there was a better way later on.

P.S.
There is one bonus, which is that there didn't appear to my much or any deformation as a result of the loose brace (I checked the back too just to be sure).

[Hesh Breakstone]

Hi Andrew and welcome to FRETS!

Knowing as I do that someone is going to come along and ask for a pic or two of the model that you have your eye on I'll just ask ya if you have any pics of this model or can find one on the Internet to post for us?  Once we see what you are dealing with I'm sure that you will get some great responses from the great folks here!

Although premature without seeing a pic and perhaps more it was not uncommon for import guitars to be engineered and assembled in a manner that is not easily serviceable.  More specifically neck joints, doweled neck joints, Asian mystery glue, and poly finishes are pretty common place for many of these instruments with the problem being serviceability or the ability to repair the instrument without doing any unnatural acts....

So lets see what you have your eye on and hopefully we can help you out.

[Andrew]

I don't currently have any pictures, but I'll be sure to get some next time I'm there. I have to return a couple repairs in the next day or two so it won't be long. Maybe he'll let me bring it home for a diagnosis/prognosis. In the meantime ill see what I can find on google images.

[Andrew]

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&...

Hope that link works. That's pretty much the same guitar as what I'm lookin at. Unfortunately there are only pics of the front of the guitar so far.

[Mark Pollock]

I've played one of these - really underwhelming to my ears - like a very quiet resonator. They are nasally sounding (IMO) and really easy to damage.

You would have to take the back off to repair that brace, and that would be a huge and likely ugly endeavor. I'm not sure how you would touch up the mess that results, you might look at a pretty big finish job after that. It is possible, too, that the one you are looking at sounds good because the brace is off - remember, it won't sound the same when finished!

You are asking for a ton of trouble with this. If the guitar was $50, it might be worth the pain and expense, but any more, and what you will end up with is a deeply unsatisfying experience, or a disassembled guitar hanging out in your garage. AND, since it has already partially failed, there could likely be other parts ready to fail too.

Just avoid it. I've regretted not picking up the one I saw too, then I realize how hard it is to work with actual WORKABLE guitars, and realize that I would have never gotten it done.

All IMHO, of course.

[Scott Supak]

I see these things as the most extreme example of form over function and don't understand how a company can send these out into the world and expect them to have any kind of longevity. But maybe that's the point?

I first encountered this sound hole blockade on an Hofner 6-string lute from the '60s. Top cracks and loose braces were inaccessable thanks to a really cute vine-like obstruction completely filling the sound hole. I cut it out with a thin-kerf X-acto saw blade, performed the necessary repairs, then re-installed it using tinted eposy as a filler for the kerfs.

I've seen similar obstructions on Luna guitars, which also suffered from less-than-ideal neck angles and other maladies right outta the box. I don't know anything about Shiraki instruments, but this type of construction is a big red flag in my book.

[Andrew]

Okay, so here are some pictures of the guitar in question. And as the last two posts suggested, question is the operative word. The top is not in as good a shape as I thought; there is one large crack that's beginning to open a bit, and there's a good degree of bellying/rotation. There's also another small crack on the top left should from a bird's wing to the purfling, and a few finish chips arond the body next to the purfling. You'll also notice the strangish heel, which has a couple slight cracks on the very back just adjacent to the body - it's hard to tell if they're just in the finish or the wood as well. It would be interesting to see what the neck joint looks like on the inside. Despite the fair degree of bellying, the action is still very reasonable.

So, all in all there's obviously more work there than I thought/remembered (wishful thinking probably). It's a bit of a shame because the guitar really does sound very good - rather elegant.same go for its cohort with maple back and sides (it's in slightly worse shape overall). You might expect these guitars to sound rather muffled with the 'rosette' being what it is, but that's definitely not the case. I may still purchase the guitar and test my skills in the future, but likely not at the price he's asking (675 can). That would be reasonable without structural problems. I'd go 2 or 3 for it.

As a side note, Shiraki instruments were made by the Matsumoku company in Japan in the late 70s to mid 80s. I've read varying reports on the technique of the rosette carving, from carved by hand to lasers to sandblasting. I'm not sure which was used, but the hard winter growth grain is the wood that remains as fine 'slats' in the rosette, the softer summer growth having been removed (all those little wooden slats line up with the grain). Another interesting thing is that those slats are unfinished, as though it were done after the finishing.

[Mark Pollock]

Hmm - the one I looked at 6 months ago was selling for $250 US, in pretty good shape. That $675 can is pretty insane.

[Thomas James]

From what I'm reading, sounds like you might experience remorse after purchase. This is a wall hanger at best.

[Andrew]

Yes this is beginning to look like a bit of a bummer. It's definitely not going to take priority over car repairs tools and a new amp. Maybe I'll talk him down in the future.

Anyway, I'm still interested in ideas about how to get into this thing and do some repairs. It would be an interesting undertaking certainly.

[Thomas James]

Mark's suggestion of removing the back is the way. His comments on what would happen sound right to me. Your "interesting adventure" might become a spectre. You will certainly pass the time vs money differential. Do it only if you want to learn in the process, and you get the guitar way cheap. 

[Andrew]

Learning some things would be the main idea if I were to go for it, but as I said its not high on my list of priorities. I've just been looking at this thing and wondering for 5 years so it would be 'fun' - that is if I ever happened to have a whack of free time.

Back removal is definitely something I haven't done yet. I'll practise on some real beaters in the meantime, then if I ever get this guitar cheap ill be a bit better prepared.