Vintage Instrument Devaluation Chart??

[Jeff Perkins]

I'm asking you guys out there if anyone knows where I can find a guide, or some chart, that shows how much different repairs devalue a guitar. Like, for instance, how much does replacing a bridge that was badly cracked, and almost unrepairable, on a 30 year old martin devalue the guitar, ect? Do any of you know of a website, link , or book that would give me this kind of information? It would be really helpfull when I'm estimating for clients how much a repair I'm about to do will affect the valuie of their instrument. If there is no such chart or info, would any of you be interested with working with me to create such a thing? Any replys are greatly appreciated, and any help is even more appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[Pierre-Antoine Roiron]

The Blue Book offer some help on vintage value, but I don't think it deals with repairs.

[Jeff Perkins]

Thanks for the reply. I have all the vintage value guides, but none of them deal with repairs, as you said. It's strictly repairs that I'm concerned with. So, if any of you have written down and worked out some sort of general guide that you use yourself when dealing with a customer, that would be helpful too.

[Frank Ford]

Sorry, but I don't think anybody could produce such a chart.  At our shop we spend a fair amount of time try to guess or estimate that kind of thing one instrument at a time, and there is hardly ever solid agreement.  Devaluation varies with the kind, model, vintage year, quality of work, materials and, most importantly,  the collector mentality and climate, which has changed significantly in the last few decades.

[Ned Knepp]

As am amatuar, I have less stake in this than many of you but I can't help but wonder if you are approaching this from the correct direction. It 'seems to me that the question isn't how much your work is going to devalue an instrument. I realize that there are people that are more interested in having every little original piece of a guitar then they are in having a functional instrument but I think they are in the minority. This would indicate that the market is mostly people looking to play the instruments. In this market your work increases the value of an instrument that is already devalued by the need for repair.

 

Just my two cents. 

[Jeff Perkins]

Yeah, I know it's so subjective. i was just looking for some kind of rough ballpark guide. I guess it's not really possible, as you'd have to address each specific model and year, along with the shape the instrument is in. Thanks for the reply's though

[Eric Steven Johansen]

Absolutely right Ned. Want it totally original then put it in a sealed case and forget about it, like the guys who buy collector cars and never drive them. I buy and sell vintage and 90% of my customers want it playable first, so did I devalue it by making it so? Do quality work and let time decide.

[Thomas James]

The Vintage Guitar Price Guide touches on this subject briefly under their 'Understanding Values' section. They state the primary concern is the level of craftsmanship. Rough examples given: re-fins, poor work, can be as much as minus 50% or more of current market price. Professional re-fret or near invisible crack repairs can be as little as 5%.  My experience is that it all depends on the buyer. George Gruhn's book makes a good point about how different clientele are when evaluating instrument worth and condition. Players, collectors, and speculators do not evaluate equally.

[Jeff Perkins]

I just preordered the 2012 Vintage Guitar Price Guide, to be released on OCT 1. It's been years since I've had one, so hopefully it will help in my determination. Thanks guys!

[Mark A. Kane]

It  wouldn't (and doesn't) generally occur to me that when I replace, for instance, a cracked bridge on an old Martin that I have de-valued it in any way. In other words, I don't automatically assume that the guitar is devalued because of repair work. In fact, my general belief is the opposite provided the work is at least the equal of the original. For example, I repaired a 1940 D18 that had seen very little play wear at all, but had been stored improperly for the majority of it's life. When it came to me it wasn't worth much. It had a cracked bridge that was almost completely pulled away from the top, the neck had .080-.090" relief, and the neck angle was bad. These repairs were not difficult, nothing about the basic structure was altered, but the guitar sold for a hefty amount of money, on the high end of market prices at the time. To look at the guitar would not have revealed the presence of different or non spec parts. The neck set was evident even with a small shim (I don't care for a shim that is so thick that it looks like a big fat wedge, I often split the difference and accept fallaway as a necessary compromise). But I'm fairly confident I only added value to an otherwise useless assemblage of wood and wires.

 

I guess I'm saying that the concept of de-valuing just doesn't come into my equation, unless someone wants to do something really crazy to a nice instrument (a Floyd Rose on a vintage Strat for instance).

 

Just my take :)

[Paul Verticchio]

 

Hi Jeff.

I don't think the VG price guide will help you out that much.  Although a valuable resource for guitar identification, etc, the pricing guidelines are, how shall I say this diplomatically, extremely debatable among vintage dealers. Nonetheless, it's a must have for all of us.

It really does depend on the model and condition.  A 59 burst can still bring $300K in near mint to EX+ condition.  Changing a volume control knob can reduce its vale by $5K. With ultra high-grade collectible instruments, originality is paramount with condition being a secondary, but significant, concern.

Among player grade instruments, there is little to no devaluation from repairs and aftermarket replacement products. Player grade guitars' values are actually enhanced by such improvements.

I think that the best thing you could do is visit as many MAJOR vintage guitar shows as possible and get a feel for the lay of the land.  Talk to the big time vintage dealers (they're usually really nice folk and are totally accessible, oh ya, and LOVE to talk shop) and get some inside info. 

Another thing to consider is that repairing & dealing in vintage instrument are apples & oranges.  Sticking to only one of those job descriptions really reduces frustration until you get a feel for the ever-changing market. 

You may also want to consider the best education available relative to your original question: do work for an active vintage dealer.  An experienced dealer, who knows the market inside out, will be the best one to advise you on the "do's & don'ts" of vintage repair & restoration.

I've learned that the least you can do to a vintage collectible, the better, even if it means that you're left with an instrument with less than perfect (or even acceptable) playability. Again, fixing them and selling them are 2 different birds.

Best of luck & have fun,

Paul