Teak as a tone wood

[Rob Mercure]

Folks,

I've managed to come across sufficient teak - used, re-planable boards - to craft 4-5 D style top/back sets (maybe more once replaned) - much of it is quartersawn. Has anyone explored teak for these purposes - the only references I can find are for sitar construction but teak does seem to have many characteristics of denser guitar woods.

Just wondering what the best use of this stuff is.

Rob

[Tim Mace]

probably great sides and backs but never heard of a teak top ...yet.So far....

[Bob Webster]

There are a few characteristics of teak that have made guitar builders shy away from it. The first is that it shows rather high damping relative to any of the tone woods that we typically use. Combine that with high density and the propensity to dull tools and it stacks up to be a challenge to build something with decent sound. One certainly wouldn't pick it as a top wood. For backs and sides, one would even pick oak over teak; at least it has more of a tap tone to it. Lastly, I've also heard that it's a bit difficult to glue with conventional water based glues due to a high wax content.

Bob

[Rob Mercure]

Thanks, just wondering. Wasn't contemplating it at a top wood - nary a thought - but some of the back/side woods that now seem to be used are somewhat close to teak. Interesting that you think that oak has a better tap tone - I'll have to try a few pieces of oak for the hell of it now just for reference.

Density seems to be quite desireable for sides and backs - or at least for most although I actually prefer koa and mahogany - so this was why I wondered. But for simple tap tone I've whacked a few pieces of well seasoned yellow poplar - liriodendron tulipifera - that really sounded nice and I've also made a couple of electric guitars with it. So "tap tone' seems to be a vague indicator.

Any specifics about tool dulling? I suspect silica but haven't been able to confirm it but while playing with it I noted it is hell manually cut - lignum vitae cuts more easily!

Again, thanks - anyone who's made some other sucessful project with teak - other than a schooner - I'd love to do something with it while I've got it. Hmmmm, wonder how it would work for speaker cabinets.

Rob

[Bob Webster]

Interesting about poplar. It's been used in the past as a low cost alternative to European maple in cellos and particularly basses. However, the suitability of woods for the violin family of instruments don't necessarily apply for guitars. For tonal purposes, some damping is not viewed as detrimental for the violin series because one is continuously feeding the strings power and damping leads to better coupling of resonant frequencies with the frequencies of the bowed notes.

A really clear bright tap tone correlates very well with low damping and also with the general propensity of the wood to split easily under stress. African blackwood and Brazilian rosewood have outrageously strong tap tones but have to be handled pretty carefully. By comparison, maple goes thud. There is also a correlation between damping and the amount of interlocking grain that the wood displays (maple, koa, Aussie blackwood, bubinga). The interlocking grain gives the wood great toughness, which is just another way of saying that it will give or bend alot under stress without breaking. And that's teak for ya'. Schooners.

The only reason I mentioned oak is because, on a lark, Bob Taylor once built a guitar completely out of palette woods. Pine top and oak sides and back. I don't think it made into his catalog, though. No hands on specifics about teak dulling tools; just something I recall seeing on one of the woodworking forums.

Bob

[Rob Mercure]

Bob,

Really hadn't thought about woods that split easily as having a good tap tone but with some quick thought there seems to be a correlation. Now I'll have to check out elm, sycamore (not the British Great Maple but planus), and beech to see what they sound like. But black locust is dense and splits easily but it's not known for it's tap tone.

Generally I've found that most woods sound nice and in this area - central Appalachians - native black cherry is widely discarded and also used for pallets and it sounds much like maple to me - or at least like hard (sugar) maple. But yellow poplar, to my ears, has more of a "thunk" than the "ring" of maples.

Really I guess that most woods probably sound good with good craft - I've got some redwood and western red cedar that I bought long ago as shelving that I've been meaning to use as top wood for a long time. Both these pieces ring wondefully and were obviously cut from slow old growth trees (a shame) and are essentially quarter sawn.

Would western red cedar work for a carved top mandolin - I've got a piece that's probably aged for well over 60 years almost exactly the size for an "A" type.

Rob

[Ned Knepp]

I think that your red cedar would work fine as long as you leave it a bit thicker than spruce. There's a pretty good chance that the bridge will dent the face but I suppose that's OK as long as you get it placed correctly and leave it there.

Ned

[Gary Lamberth]

Having built a couple of dreadnaughts out of both white oak and yellow poplar, I'll just say that sometimes the results are kinda suprising. Sometimes, a stick of stovewood can make a pretty darn good sounding guitar.

Gary L.
"StoveWood Guitars"

[Bob Webster]

Oh, good for you. But have you ever turned rosewood into stovewood? I have.

Bob

[Donald A. Fortune]

Hey Rob -- In my many years as a high end cabinet maker I have used teak as a custom bar top and I can tell you sir that if you want to spend a lot of money eather sharpening tools or buying them, by all means go for the teak, if not then choose another material. (just my 2 cents)
Cheers,
Donald

[Rob Mercure]

Donald,

Well at this point I believe that I'll just make a couple of jewel boxes for friends out of it - everyone's convinced me - it's just that teak doesn't apprear free that often in my reality and I wanted to do something interesting with it.

At this point though I'm getting so many exotic woods in shipping crates that I think I need to make friends with a dendrologist. I've come across "something" that I'm sure is a Dahlbergia of some sorts that's commonly used as well as some woods that almost look like a soft maple but are just about as hard as the "rosewoods." Too bad I don't find CA mahogany anymore but hopefully that means that it's being conserved and not become so scarce that other tropical trees are replacing it.

Rob

[Tim Mace]

Has anybody but me tried Narra?

[Tim Mace]

also on the 1st mando from I did from scratch,I wound up using poplar bought at the home depot 'cause I ruined the intended exotic wood trying to bend sides.I say it's one of the best sounding I've made.