Removing the back of a Parlor Guitar

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Hi there,I have an old 1920's Parlor Guitar almost identical to the Cinncanatus I saw in one of these threads,oak back and sides spruce top I think its a Lakeside.I need some advice it has sunk above the soundhole and on investigation the top brace has come away on the treble side along with about 4'' of kerfing .Also the middle back brace is non existant,even with all that it sounds so sweet and as its set up for lap steel the high action caused by the sinking top is not an issue.I feel I need to take the back off to make the repairs but need help to go about it.The back is not lifting at all so I am uncertain where to start can someone guide me thru the process.This is my first post to this excellent site I have built a few Weissenborn style guitars but have no real repair experience .Cheers from OZ Kelvin

[David Houchens]

Kelvin, Howdy. Being from the 1920's I'd say its assembled with hide glue. This type joint can usually be separated with a thin pallet knife. I sometimes use small amounts of warm water (140-160 degrees) applied with an eye dropper in the joint. I use very little as not to swell the wood. Think moist,not wet. Warming the knife a little in the sorce of hot water helps as well. I have several pallet knives I 'll set in my water pot and rotate them often. Warm and moist and slow!
The big thing is to go slow and easy. Watch that your pallet knife doesn't pick up and follow the grain in the back. The toughest spots are usually the blocks. You may be able to do part of the neck block through the sound hole if its stubborn.
Of coarse if the back is bound the binding must be removed first. Having built a few I assume you know this, but I add it for someone who might read this that hasn't.
I have seen where bound backs have been sawn off with a rasor saw with the spine removed. This allows the binding to be left on. It can be done well, but I don't like to see it done this way because it cuts through the kerfed lining.
An instument of this age usually comes apart fairly easy. But as my Granddaddy said,"theys one in every bunch".

[Matt Haugen]

Hi Kelvin, I agree with David on the process, but from what you wrote, it seems like you should think about taking on these issues through the sound hole. I doubt there is anyone who enjoys taking the back off of a guitar more then me, it is like opening a Christmas present, but then you might be inviting in a new issue, which would be distended sides. Once the back comes off the sides will want to expand and sometimes it is quite a chore to get everything lined up again. There are several ways to go about the clamping of the loose braces without the extra work of a back removal. Just a thought.. Good luck to you.

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Thanks guys, I think you may be right Stringer the back is nice and tight and maybe trying to remove it may open more problems,I will make up some clamps and jigs and try to do the work thru the soundhole.I think I can also replace the missing back brace,pretty fiddly but I think it can be done,if all fails I can always go the back off route.Thanks for the input.Cheers

[Rick Homan]

I started a thread about a Cincinnatus parlor sometime ago, and, based on that experience, would second the caution about removing the back. I really had no choice since all the braces and a lot of kerfing were loose. Also, the back was half unattached anyway, so removing it was not a difficult job. But, it was difficult to line up the sides with the edges of the back when it came time to glue it back on. I ended up with some 1/4" dowels criss-crossed inside to get the shape close, and squeezed where I could while clamping. When the clamps came off, I removed the dowels by reaching through the soundhole with a pair of pruning shears. I still had to shave a couple of edges where the back overhung, and then stain and shellac.

So, avoid takiing it off if you can, but if yours is like mine the soundhole is pretty small.

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Thanks Rick ,you have convinced me I have decided not to take the back off I have made up a brace for the missing one just got to try to get it clamped in.The hard part will be getting glue into the top loose brace and kerfing any ideas.The Cincinnatus looks great you did a great job my guitar looks identical,did you use hide glue I haven't used it since my very early piano repairing days so have to relearn the process.I will also need hints on fixing the shellac finish. Cheers

[Rick Homan]

Have you checked the neck angle? Put an 18" or 24" ruler on the frets and slide it toward the bridge. Ideally, it will just clear the top of the bridge, but not the saddle. If it is aiming lower (more at the top of the guitar), a neck re-set will be needed so the strings will not be too high off the frets. This may be the case since, as you said, it has sunk above the soundhole.

If you are taking the neck off to re-set it, and since you have about 4" of kerfing loose from the top, you might consider taking the top off using the method David describes for taking off the back. Then you could glue the top brace(s) properly, glue the kerfing and re-attach the top. Yes, you might have a little trouble lining up the edges, but that really is not a huge concern. As I said, a little stain, a little shellac . . . who's going to know?

I did use hot hide glue, because I wanted to practice with it and to keep the guitar close to its original construction. Also, I found it sounds best with "silk and steel" strings. Martin makes such a set; perhaps others do too. Keep us posted!

[Kelvin Monaghan]

I managed to get the top loose brace and kerfing glued I also used hide glue a very tricky job but it all seems secure.The missing back brace was another story the original had somehow sheared off leaving about 1/8" attached ,so I planed to attach a new brace beside it,the problem is the oak back is nowhere near flat so I couldn't get it to sit right ,I figured it looked as if it had been off for such a long time I won't worry about it at present.You are right it does need a neck set however as I use it as a lap steel the high action is fine ,I made a new ebony nut to raise the action and a couple of coats of shellac and shes done.I will try the silk n steel strings at present I strung up with light gauge and tuned to open D the tension seems ok.What a great lively guitar sounds absolutely wonderful as a steel.I will post a pic shortly.

[Kelvin Monaghan]

Some finished pics of my Lakeside Parlor

[william lester]

hi rick i just picked up a cinncinnatus parlor guitar yesterday from a junker guy friend of mine. it's all original including the finish with a nice herrringbone inlay on the top. no fretwear and really nice except for 3 cracks (2 top and 1 back. i'm curious about the manufacturer( i'm betting regal) and market value if nicely repared(needs back removal to do it right. what do you know about the history of these or do you know someone who knows (george gruhn ?) thanks for any help. Bill