Can I raise my action without increasing saddle height?

[Frank Beard]

The action on my 2 year old HD-28V is very low at 2.8/32 and 1.8/32. It's tolerable since I play mostly fingerstyle, but I can't dig into it w/o fret buzz. I've experimented with the relief and settled on .006" for the best compromise. My problem is that the saddle is already 3/16" tall at the big E, with a 45 degree break angle at the big E, so I hate to increase the height of the saddle.

I have removed the string grooves in the saddle a few times, and that's how the action dropped from the factory setting of 3/32 and 2/32. A straight edge on top of the frets extends to 1/16" above the bridge top, and the string height at the bridge is 9/16". The guitar has been kept humidified and it plays and sounds good.

On one hand, I feel thankful to have a full saddle since I know that it will eventually need to be lowered, as the neck block rotates with age. But for now, my question is this: Is there a way to raise the action just a tad without making a taller saddle? What I need is a little bit of a bridge belly like most Martins, but this one doesn't have one.

I use 13-56 strings and I've pondered stringing it with heavies to see if that would induce a little bridge rise, but I wouldn't want to cause other damage.

Thanks in advance, Frank

[Ron Frazier]

You could loosen the truss rod and see what happens.

Then try and shim the bottom of the saddle to raise it don't glue it to the saddle. Both can be reversed again with no side effects.

Don't sand the top of the saddle any more ! The small groves wont hurt the sound any.

Ron

[Antonio Cotichini]

Aehmm... I'm afraid I'm not Frank, but let me say something about your problem. My advice is NOT to install a Bridge Doctor, that device that many people find lovely and useful to knock down a bellied bridge! I don't know if there's a REVERSE kind of that, to PRODUCE a belly on the top. I hope not! Almost every acoustic guitar owner HATE to have a bellied bridge, but, as you know, it's almost bound to happen after a few years of strings pulling action.
As you said, you removed the groves on the saddle a few times, actually lowering it. Why don't you want to install a new full high saddle? It will go back as it was as new. I'd go for it. It's simple, cheap and ... perfect if done by a pro. You should also put a slim shim of veneer under your saddle.
Did you ever checked the relief of the strings along the fretboard? Where do the strings (if all of them or just some) buzz? Maybe you need just a touch of truss rod work.
O.K. let's wait for Frank's advice. He's the lighthouse for all of us.

[Frank Beard]

I've already adjusted the truss rod to what I think is the best relief. Don't worry Antonio, no Bridge Doctor will come close to my Martin. You've both suggested shimming the saddle which is a good option, but I have a long through saddle and although it's supposed to be a drop-in, I can't get it to budge. I assume the first owner had it glued in.

Yes, I could build a new saddle but the break angle is VERY steep and I wondered if there's another way to skin this cat. Thanks, Frank

[Antonio Cotichini]

My God! How does it come that I send a message when no others are there and then find I'm always second? DAMNED TIME ZONE! Anyway, it's not important. I'm happy that Ron said almost the same I did; that means I'm not wrong.
Good luck and Merry Xmas to everybody!

[Antonio Cotichini]

I see I mistake: Frank was your sign, not an expected answer from Frank Ford! None is perfect!
Well, Frank N°2, let the cat keep it's skin, I'm still of the opinion that a new saddle is the best option.
What you mean with VERY steep? Are the pin holes too close to the saddle slot? Otherwise it shouldn't be a problem; you'll have a tight contact between strings and saddle, and a good transmission. Send a picture if you can.

[Frank Beard]

Antonio, here's a pic.

[Magnus Hultin]

To me, that saddle slot does not seem deep enough. With that steep break angle over the saddle (over 45 deg on low E) there is pretty much forward pressure on the saddle. If the saddle is raised it will be even worse.

It looks like the bridge has been shimmed?

Magnus

[Michael P. Lemieux]

Hello
Sounds like you need a neck reset.
Mike

[Antonio Cotichini]

In my opinion ,Mike, a neck reset is excessive. We're talking about 0.2/32" !!!
Frank, I must admit that the angle is sharp enough. Has the bridge ever been lowered? It seems like the saddle slot isn't deep and the pins protrude. Anyway, the distance between the saddle and the pins holes hasn't changed since when the guitar was new, before you levelled the saddle. If the guitar sounded perfect then, why not reinstate the original situation installing a new saddle? Another way should be levelling the frets a bit, but I wouldn't go this side if not for a little of dressing. I'm stubborn, I'd make a new saddle.
Happy New Year
Antonio

[Jeff Highland]

The saddle is glued in at the factory so removing it and fabricating another is probably beyond your skillset.
I would just increase the relief to 10 thou, that will give you a little more clearance for "digging in"

[Tim Mace]

Since you say you want to "dig in" I don't know that you can have it both ways..Those are fairly hefty strings too and are probably not that great for the guitar in the long run.I'd switch to lights and let that neck settle.I fingerpick too and wouldn't be able to for extended periods on your selected gauge.Sounds like you need 2 axes.Just my view...truss rod doesn't sound like a solution.

[Frank Beard]

The is a non-altered Martin bridge and I believe I'll install an ebony shim on the bottom of the saddle to get the action back to 3/32 and 2/32, or maybe a whisker above that. Maybe the saddle isn't glued in after all, and is just very tight. I will have my heat lamp ready, just in case it has been glued.

Thanks very much for the great replies! Frank