Do players need help with music?

[John Cadd]

When you talk to players do you find they need help with music or different keys at all? Or are they all fully trained in every key.Is there room to help them to help themselves.
This is a question not only about classical playing.
Do players wish they could escape the TABS system.TABS is good if you can`t read music.
If you had a system to convert from TABS to music would it be welcome? TABS is good. Music is good Both is better. Is there a demand? I could help them.

[John Cadd]

Guantanamo will be empty soon.

[FRANK]

well there is always room on the rock/ Alcatraz

[Rob Mercure]

Hey Paul,

If you've been unfortunately subjected to formal statistics classes (choose the rack first or the iron maiden) the magic number for a "statistically valid sample" is around 400. I can't remember perzactly why now, 20 years later, but I remember that factoid. See there, that makes it soooooo much easier .

Rob

[Ned Knepp]

Ok, John. I think I understand what you are saying. I agree that musical notation is a language that must be mastered before sheet music has any real use and I know several people that gave up music because of the process of learning to read it. I can see where it may help a lot of potential players if they could "learn the song" in stead of being forced to learn theory first.

[Rob Mercure]

My problem is that I learned first to read music as a flute player in HS band. So I read treble cleft well but have never mastered reading bass cleft quickly nor being able to easily read chords. TAB doesn't seem to be that much better IMHO but what my overall problem with reading any sort of scoring is interpreting time - notation/pitch not being a problem. No matter the system the actual timing of a piece doesn't match the score as there are subtlties that just defy scoring and require hearing the piece. In high school band if I heard a piece I could then quicly play it on the sheet music - but I couldn't sight read worth poop as time from a score defied me. I dunno, there has to be a better way of conveying timing that provides for the actual performing but I've never found it. As such I recommend reading music before TAB as the best of poor systems.

Rob

[Ned Knepp]

Rob,
I did this too except that I played trumpet. The problem was that I could sight read the music as well as everyone else but I had to heard someone else play for it to make sense to me. It was easier to just play what the guy next to me played than to read the music.

I understand about needing to hear the music. There is a natural rhythm/hesitation/push between notes and phrases that isn't recorded in the notation. A sort of emphasis within the emphasis that you can hear but not see in the music.

When I learned to play guitar, I didn't have anyone to explain how to apply what I knew of music theory to strings. I remember enough, even now. that I could learn to read music with some (a lot of ) effort but I'm just too lazy. For me, tabs are useful because the notation is straight forward but I don't sight read it either. Again, it's just too much trouble. I tend to us it to see how someone else dealt with the music with a minimum of hassle. From there I can often manage on my own.

Tablature has become a pretty sophisticated system but there are a lot of people writing in tabs that don't use the full functionality of the medium. A lot of what is posted on the Internet is very basic finger positions for cords and little else. IMO, it not the system of tablature that is "poor", it's the manner in which people use it that causes problems.

[John Cadd]

What new players always need is a positive feedback that gives you a chord or a tune for your efforts. When there is a long timelag and lots of frustration the brain starts to switch off.
That switch off is not laziness.The brain is telling you , Enough! Do something I can cope with.
Most tunes are about 8 notes long.(Basic bones of the tune). Once a player starts to get a reward he will come back for more. Once that barrier is moved the growing process starts.
If you get a real novice struggling it`s impossible to judge whether they will be any good.It`s too soon. More players equals more guitars. Good for business.
6 new players equals 36 new guitars. Nice!

[Rob Mercure]

Ned,

Believe it or don't you're about the first "sight reading" muscian who understands my frustration with reading the subtlties of rhythm. I've tried to explain this to me teacher in HS band (long rest his soul) as well as my college profressor (was a music major for a while) but none of these seemed to understand. But, I'm also not aware of them ever attempting to sightread a piece - out of competition - that they had not heard somewhere before!

I play with a lot of hand drummers - in one band with as many as 6 on stage with me as well as audience members on the floor before the stage adding another dozen or so - and my guitar work both played of them as well as led them to start, stop, and break the songs. So it was an interesting "enterchange."

Let us not forget - and we do so at the peril of our musical souls - the guitars a percussion instrument as is the drum and we have more in common with the "bangers" that we do with the "soaring symphonic soungbyrds." Second only to playing off another lead/rhythm guitarist is playing off a tabula, talking drum, or other good percussionist.

Hey, how do you score a talking drum? In either standard notation or TAB?

Rob

[John Cadd]

I have only looked at pitch of notes and finger position for each key.The rhythmn (how do you spell that) is just a gradual practice thing surely. Tabs don`t do rhythmn . Have you tried a music theory book?

[Ned Knepp]

John, I finally figured out that it's spelled "Rhythm". I kept trying to put a vowel before the "m".

Some people get guitar rhythm and some don't. That's what I'm talking about. Musical Notation gives "timing" but it doesn't give "rhythm" ( my was of thinking. ) but "rhythm" is a strong component of "feel" to me.

Actually, I've seen tabs with notations to indicate stroke direction as well as it's starting point. It's not the exactly rhythm but coupled with the Timing signature of the music, it's a good indication of it.

A question for you; How do you determine which position to use? I mean; How do you determine which "A" (or any other note) on the fretboard is the best for a beginner to use in a given situation?

[John Cadd]

Ned I had to learn that guitars are played much more across the fretboard than along it.It might not look like that to a spectator. The fingering depends on what notes come before an"A" and what come after. That`s another benefit of this system I worked out.You can see at a glance where the fingers will reach.The music on it`s own will give you nothing(as a beginner ). It is just as easy right up high on the fretboard.That is really good if you have small hands.Quite often the sound is better for that piece too. If you have been trying to leap all over the neck to reach the notes you are familiar with ,you start to see all sorts of economical short cuts.Your hand can have a much easier time and play in tune. That works for a key with 5 sharps or 5flats. If you gave me an awkward key without the chart I would grind to a halt.As soon as the chart was there I could learn the piece.
It covers the learning stage of a tune. When you have played it a few times the music is enough.Your hand will behave itself and follow the correct notes.
It`s like a baby learning to talk.You never try to teach a baby the rules of grammar.Just give a bit of help when it`s needed.
I sent a copy of this to a teaching organisation and they told me it was too complicated. It`s as complicated as a map of your town centre.How much do you need to look at in a map? Do they think a Christmas tree is too complicated?
What do you look at first???

[Ned Knepp]

I understand what you are saying about selecting the notes but I'm an experienced player. How does your system explain this to a beginner? How does a beginner, using your system, know which "b" to play?

I've got a couple of charts which show the notes on the fingerboard laying around here somewhere. They show me where all those "b"s are located but not which one to use for a given music passage. I understand, as an experience player, that I am free to use which ever one fills my need but this is one of the major sticking points that kept me from trying to learn to read music for the guitar. Even IF I did memorize all those note locations, a tall order to begin with, how would I know, as a beginner, which "b" I should use? Does your invention address this problem?

Ned