Restoring 1930s Grover two screw banjo machines...

[Kerry Krishna]

A few of the Kay Kraft tenor guitars and rosewood 6 strings use these old style machine heads. The leather pressure spacer things are falling off (literally!) my current tenor, and the machines need work. Are there any photoessays anyone knows of for fixing these old style machines?
The machine in the lower right corner is the problem one today, and if you look, you will see an actual piece of leather poking out...
Thanks for any help!

[Mark Pollock]

Same problem here, Kerry. I will soon be restoring a 1930 Martin tenor with the same tuners, and there really is very little info out there, kind of crazy considering how popular these tuners were for years. The only thing I've seen is "Take off the buttons and soak them in some solvent for a month." Real helpful, there.

I won't be working on mine until April, when I'll actually have some time. If I find something else out I'll post it here.

What would be helpful is the exact name of these tuners. Are they two-eared pancake tuners, or what?

[Kerry Krishna]

Did you look at the photo Mark? I would guess that Grover two ear'd pancake tuners would cover it.... 

[Mark Pollock]

Yeah, I know, like I said, I have some, but just because WE call them that doesn't mean that there's not a more used old-timer name for them. I must chastise you for using actual descriptions and logic to describe a guitar part... :)

[Mark Pollock]

Out of curiosity, I unscrewed one of the knobs. It came off, along with the busing underneath and the leather washer under that - so it should not be a big deal to replace these washers! (There's also a spring inside - be careful.) I'm not sure what I would replace these washers with - leather, or perhaps gasket material?

[Kerry Krishna]

 It has to be leather, the question being 'how thick' ? This is a pretty important question I would think. They really were  super cheap tuners. When the axe is up to tension, the back of the tuners all lift right off of the wood.  And the housing is just cheap pressed metal...

[Frank Ford]

Those 2:1 Grover tuners were indeed made for many years, and in many different configurations.  Later ones were also made by Elton.

They are, in my opinion, ALL pretty lousy, and in addition to the crippling gear ratio, they have cheesy little gears that are prone to damage.   That said, they are easy enough to work on, with cleaning and lubrication of the parts about all  you can do to prolong their miserable life.  No problem to replace the friction washers with either leather or plastic.  I prefer leather.

Personally, I wouldn't suffer those gears on my own instrument.  Without hesitation, I'd order up a set of new Five Star planets, which are pretty good replicas of the 1920s Planet 4:1 pegs of greatness.  A bit of file work may be necessary to fit the original ivoroid, black, white or cream colored buttons.  Sure, you may have to enlarge the holes, depending on the model of the originals ( the "no ear" versions had 3/8 holes like modern pegs). 

[Tim Mace]

Can't you just punch out a leather washer w/correct size dia.?I'd be wantin'new tuners but I can tell you like fixin' stuff!!Let's see your Martin Tenor??

[Kerry Krishna]

Thanks Tim and Frank for chiming in. As long as I can keep these machines in working order, it means I can keep my tenors in all original condition. Frank I used the 5-Star ones on one of my Rosewood Kay Kraft Guitars. I will never use them again for that application. They get all notchy  and clicky when the bass strings are brought up to pitch, and as such, I will only order the Waverly banjo tuners next time. If you go look at the reviews for the 5-Star banjo tuners, My name and review is there on the Stewmac site. 

 I also do NOT want to have to customize the headstocks on any of these axes, They made it 80 years without the work so far. I can live with the Grovers working badly, I just can't live with them if they don't work at all. Thanks again guys.

 

[Frank Ford]

I agree that the Five Stars are no match for the string tension of guitars. Had I read your initial post more carefully I would have noticed that you were talking about guitars. Those Grovers and the Five Stars are far more commonly used on banjos, with far lower string tension.

[Kerry Krishna]

 Frank, there is an American guy that collects whatever model of Martin guitar that had the banjo tuners on it originally, (What model was that Frank?)  and Henderson guitars, he says that all 10 or 12 of them that he has, have Waverlys on them, and he has not had a single problem with any of the 12 sets. 

 So I bought the 5 Stars off Stewmac and saved myself just $40.00 bucks off the price of the Waverlies. I actually Emailed him after I saw his collection online, a few days after I put the brand new 5-Stars on on my 6 string rosewood Kay Kraft. I have at least one more rosewood KK to get (this one a 12 fret) and if machines need replacing, I will get the Waverlies and not have to worry about them again. 

   As for my current  post,  the tuners are just the top 4 strings on my three tenor KK guitars, so the tension is not as bad. Thanks for the reply.  

[Kerry Krishna]

 Here is a shot...