Train Wreck D 18Train Wreck D 18

[william lotts]

I have a 70's D18 that fits the above description with multiple old cracks, with a lot of separation in the top and back . How do you folks pull these together?

[Mark Pollock]

AIEEE! Time for a new top?

Humidify, humidify, humidify. Get those things to close on their own. Then glue, splint, and make sure those braces are tight. But humidify. I tend to put things like this in the room of our house with the shower for a month, and then glue up while things are nice and tight. But I'm in the central valley of California, and we can get away with all kinds of stuff here - in West Virginia, you have much greater problems with humidity and dryness, and that top just might not ever handle it well after this.

If those cracks won't close on their own, then you get to add new wood. If you are adding a bit of new wood, then add a lot of new wood and replace the top. Then you can also make the braces nicer, make a nicer, smaller maple bridge patch, correct the intonation with a more customized bridge that is in the correct place and has the saddle placed properly...

There is a GREAT idea for a clamp in the "free tools" thread on this board, one end goes in the pin holes.

[Hesh Breakstone]

What Mark said.

I bag em.... or more specifically I take a big-arse... sponge and not in the in-law that won't go home sense... and get it very wet and place it in the bottom of a large garbage bag.  Then I carefully lower the guitar (mine usually have necks...) into the bag so that it is suspended above and not touching the sponge.  I wrap up the bag around the neck and hang the sucker for a day or two.

If the crack is going to be capable of closing this will do it.  Once the crack(s) are closed I heat up the hot hide glue, wash the old hands (dirty hands and cracks don't work well together in so much as you can get dirt in the crack and it will show).  Carefully pressing and pulling to open the crack I try to smear into the crack as much as I can the HHG (hot hide glue) and then immediately go to my pre-arranged and dry clamped clamping set-up.  You want to be sure that the crack is closed AND level so cauls with either non-stick material or waxed paper are advisable.  Again do a dry clamping run first to make sure that everything that you need is at hand AND you are seeing the results that you wish for.

Lately I have been using rare earth, high-powered 3/4" magnets inside the guitar and on the top too with again the cauls in place and rigid enough to align the two sides of the crack flat.

Once dry and tight I may install a cross crack diamond with beveled edges inside the gutiar over the crack and use multiples if the crack is long enough.

With a hanger that you make from what ever you have you could bag this one too and be gluing the crack the next day.

If the crack will not close after two days in the bag you will need to add material as Mark mentioned.

[Ned Knepp]

Everyone has a different approach to this sort of thing. For myself, I would not replace the top. It looks like someone has already worked in the guitar with a long split to the side repaired and the bridge plate replaced, perhaps more. 

With the back off it is easy to clean up and patch the cracks with several small cross grain patches. As Mark mentioned the cracks probably need to be splined from the top but it's not really all that hard if you take your time. I doubt if it will be possible to hide them with all the dirt that appears to be embedded in the edges of them but a careful cleaning with distilled water will help a lot. The guitar's never going to be a show piece anyway.

I would also make some wooden cross grain braces to replace the cloth strips on the side, particularly where the crack has been repaired. They will hold much better than the cloth strips.

I would probably add a couple of vertical grain strips to the end block on each angled part of the block. These could be sized about like the vertical strip that is already there. The idea is to reinforce the glue-up where the tail block crack was repaired. I would add more support because the one that exist now was compromised by the endpin hole just about where the crack happened in the first place. 

BTW, I would carefully remove the chips of wood that were left on the block when the  back was removed and glue them back into place on the back panels.

Make sure all the braces are tight with no gaps. If you need to, it's much easier to remove one with the back off to reglue it than it is to do this later when the box is closed up so make very sure they are all tight. Most of the time it's just a matter of using a thin blade to work glue under the loose section and clamp it up. Of course you should clean up the old glue as much as possible first.

The top area under the fingerboard will obviously need to be replaced unless you have the neck with those sections still attached. If not, I would fabricate new section to fit and carefully fit it on the edges. Beside gluing it to the existing braces and the head block. I would also add some thin, cross grain patches along the complete length of the joint. Make it nice and pretty.

The soundhole is, IMHO, the hardest fit. For that I would tape a piece of paper inside of the box, over the hole then carefully trace the shape of the opening. I would either make several of them or make copies of the original so I could doodle on them with a pencil.  Once I had the shape, I would go about matching the grain and fabricating a patch. I think it may be possible to make this wide enough to place the cross grain joint under the end of the fingerboard extension so it is hidden.  This needs to be supported with underneath with an overlapping patch. Getting the inlay right may mean replacing all of it but then again, I haven't tried this particular fix so I would have to wing that. 

Anyway, that is how I think I would approach it if it were mine. The bottom line for me is that I don't really think this is that much of a train wreck. It will never be collectible but then most of them aren't and I don't see any reason why it couldn't and shouldn't be playable again.

[william lotts]

Thanks Gents. Once i got the back off the top was just hanging on by the binding in many areas. So, i removed the top as well, which was hard to do as the former repair was done with some glue that was difficult to separate from the kerffed lining. the binding was glued with super glue. All of this made everything very difficult. Even the braces of the back were re-glued with some nasty stuff. I have about gotten the back done and will show some pictures of the process. it is not perfect, but all i want to accomplish is to get this back into some kinda playing shape. Hiding these cracks is all but impossible in my opinion.

[william lotts]

This is my guitar bought off of eBay several years ago. Before i can remove that awful bridgeplate i need to repair several cracks in the top to stabilize it somewhat. The bridge also has to be replaced after i get the neck reset. It really is a challenge to me with my limited experience, but i love it.

[Mark Pollock]

It's YOUR guitar? AWESOME!

I have a 1929 Martin tenor that I am doing roughly the same job to - disassembled and broken when I got it, not worth the money to have "professionally restored", but absolutely worth fixing!

So, what I have to keep telling myself is this - I have got time. Lots of it. I can do a bit here and a bit there. I will finish it next summer. I'll have the back rebuilt in February. NO RUSH.

You have this wonderful luxury of time too, with an instrument that, while good, is not an "OMG DON'T TOUCH IT" kind of insane value instrument. You get to make mistakes and fix them, which is the real skill to learn with repair. (Right guys?)

HAVE FUN!! And feel our collective jealousy. :)

[william lotts]

I cannot begin to say how much FUN this is! i am retarded, er retired, and have all the time i have left. It was not worth getting restored but if i get it to play a tune again, i will be very happy. I truly have not been so satisfied with anything since i designed rubber compounds in the 80's in Germany, Thanks for all your recommendations and encouragement.