Flattening old Bakelite pick guards and source for new guards?

[Kerry Krishna]

The old axes I am constantly working on have a few things in common, and the warped guars are one of them. Have any of you any ideas on how exactly to flatten these things? And I would love to get a sheet of this somewhere also so I can start making my own.

[Russell Vance]

Greg,  since you mention heating and re-seating shrunken bindings and I have a relatively new Martin that has separated the binding at the waist (and torn the lacquer with it) - can you give me the skinny on how you and others go about this delicate operation.  I have standard heat guns etc.

I've "cut and shut" (added aged sections etc) severe cases in the past and am a lacquer sprayer of some conviction but the prospect of heating and stretching, which I do with new bindings when building, and re-seating is appealing and rather than experiment perhaps your info will short cut the procedure for me.  Tks in advance.

Rusty.

[Greg Mirken]

Sure, Rusty. In severe cases I will peel back even more binding (carefully!) in order to spread out the heating/stretching. I'll give the side a little protection by taping on cardboard like the backing of a writing tablet (or just hold the cardboard behind the binding as you heat it). I paint accelerator along the binding ledge with an artist's paintbrush. Heating a section of binding maybe 4 or 5 inches long with a heatgun on low, I'll push it into place. You can easily tell when it's warm enough to lay down without force. While holding it tight with one hand I'll get a drop of thin cyanoacrylate on the tip of a scribe. After I glued my thumb to a guitar, I started using a pencil eraser to press on the binding. I let the drop wick in, tacking the binding in place about every inch or so, then move to the next section. Heat, press, tack. Immediately after letting a drop wick under the binding I give a quick wipe with a piece of blue shop towel. When I've got it all down I go back and let CA wick in between my tacks. Touchup usually consists of a little 1200 wet/dry and a quick trip to the buffer. If chips of lacquer have been pulled up with the binding, you'll have to drop-fill those, of course.

I'm sure there are other techniques that work just as well or better, but this has worked for me. Good luck!

[Kerry Krishna]

Thanks for the posts folks. Paul these guitars are all 1920s/1930s Kay Kraft guitars, and they are real Bakelite.  Thanks for all your responses folks. I got what I need...

 Still no one has said anything about were I might buy some sheet stock of this stuff... Anyone?

 

[Kerry Krishna]

Greg, what a terrific description of how you do that job! With my Facebook instrument repair photoessays, I always 'try' to approach the descriptions from a layman's point of view, same as your post above. Even without any pictures, I could see everything you were describing....

[Paul Hostetter]

Some National necks back then were "real Bakelite," but the rest of it was real celluloid. Once you have enough first-hand experience with the two substances, you never get them confused. I really wish the term Bakelite hadn't been hijacked by people who thought any decorative pre-war plastic was Bakelite. Trust me, real Bakelite was never used on Kay Kraft insturments. If a guard is distorted, it's a lead pipe cinch that it's celluloid.

[Mark Dobbins]

if your uncertain about if it is or isnt bakelite put some scrubbing bubbles on a qtip and touch the bakelite if it is the qtip will turn yellow

cheers Mark

[Tom Mitchell]

Here's a link that has some interesting information!

 

http://vintagejewelrylane.com/information/vintageplastics.htm

[Tom Mitchell]

And this link - to test for "true" bakelite - http://vintagejewelrylane.com/information/bakelitetest.htm

[Paul Hostetter]

Hate to say it, but these articles are specious and misleading BS. This is a case of not believing everything you read. Witness:

The words "bakelite" and "catalin" are often used interchangeably. However, they are actually two different materials. Both are thermoset plastics made from formaldehyde.

 

No, celluloid is not a thermoset plastic. There was a bit of Bakelite with decorative properties, but most of it ended up (deservedly) as circuitboards and pot handles. Dull, ugly stuff that was (and is) impervious to heat changes.

 

 

[Kerry Krishna]

OK Paul, you have got me more than half convinced after that. I just took two of the pickguards off and have had a vera good look at both, and  I just can't tell. 409 is not widely available in Canada, so that test is out. I just tried the bright light test and no light got through either one.  '

 Paul what is the actual test for celluloid? Maybe it will be easier to prove this is celluloid than to prove it is not  bakelite. I know celluloid  is amazingly flammable, almost explosive...

   What is the active ingredient in 409? Maybe I have some here.

 Paul the material ( lets call it that!) is more flexible than I thought it should be if it is bakelite, so it certainly points in that direction.  

[Greg Mirken]

Scrape a little off in one spot on the backside with a penknife and stick your nose right down on it. Celluloid has an unmistakable camphor/ping pong ball smell.

[Paul Verticchio]

Good procedure Greg and a new one for me.  Thanks.  You too Mark.

I was going to suggest getting scrapings from both & putting a match or flame to both of them.  The celluloid will 'flash" and burn faster than you can watch.  The bakelite  will just sit there and scowl at you.  Set a real celluloid pick on fire to see what I mean.

A friend who restores antique radios tells me that Bakelite has a finite "lifespan".  After a few decades, it starts to disintegrate.  From what he's told me, it's a poor choice for any guitar component.

Best of luck (: