1967 d-12-35 restore project

[scott houston]

could use a little advice on where to actually start on this project im well into it at this point but am at a critical point where mistakes can be made.

what i have found is a 67 braz rosewood d35 12 string with the neck broken in two

the guy who broke it tried to fix it without taking the neck offf and of course it broke again leaving a mess.

so far i have removed the neck cleaned most of the glue out of the old break will get rid of all traces

the body is cracked across the front of the neck block and the neck block is cracked

im wondering if seperating the sides and top from the neck block might help give me access to put things back together properly. or just injecting glue into the c rack and throwing a  clamp on it as the best route. as well suggestions for types of glue i am intending on titebond for the neck crack hide glue for the nec k block and hide glue for reglueing the neck to the body

when the guy originally attemped repair he cut the fret board at the 12 fret in order to get at the joint to get at the neck joint is it possible to fix this without removing the fretboard from the neck even though the fretboard is extremely worn i would still like to leave the guitar as original as possible any suggestions on how to fix this one? 

there are numerous other cracks and damage to this guitar as well i know the job is intensive and probably not worth the effort but i have the space to do it some time as well and the guitar was free.

i understand that the first procedure should be to rehydrate the wood before glue ? or will that make the neck block not fit back together properly?

as im sure the neck block would be the first place to start on the repair

thanks in advance for any suggestions

Scotty

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Scott.

Although this isn't my area of expertise, I think the guys that will be able to help you the most will need more detailed photos of the damaged areas.  Better resolution than a cell phone photo might also be helpful.

The only thing I'll chime-in on is that it's definitely worth an attempt to save her and I really wouldn't worry that much about "originality".  Y'can't beat a nice BRW Martin....especially for free (:

Best of luck :-)

[Ned Knepp]

Paul's right, we need more pictures. It looks like a hand full but it's worth the effort. Is this a slotted headstock neck? Where it the break? Also some pictures of the top and sound hole damage would be  nice.

[Joshua Levin-Epstein]

Scott,

 

I'll let the others suggest how to do what but here is something to think about. I avoid slotted steel strings like thet were old girlfriends. I would consider converting to a solid peghead. This gives you a much better choice of tuners and avoids many stuck fingers and swearing. Also depending on your needs/wants/desires/capabilities, the six string version of this guitars is monstrous (incredible for fingerpicking), and there is precedence (if you care) for a solid peghead version.

 

Martin made guitars for EU Wurlitzer in Boston called D-28SWs. These were 12 fret D-28s, with both slotted and solid pegheads. These were so popular that Martin made them a standard item (when Marin wasn't a guitar of the month club).

 

Joshua   

[scott houston]

yes it is the slotted headstock 12 string the neck is broken at the block with the crack extending into the block. found this after i took neck off. the top cracks arent severe and i think they can be glued back together however beside the pickguard is extremely worn almost through the guitar. ive added a few more pics will add more of the inside when i have a chance just looking for a little advice on how to squeeze glue into the neck block crack in order to insure good adhesion thanks

[Mike McConnell]

A trick for getting glue into tight cracks that I learned from Frank's website is to drill down perpendicular to the crack, through the crack but not out the other side, then fill the hole with glue, and use a dowel as a piston to pump glue out into the crack. When you are satisfied with the squeeze out leave the dowel in the hole and clamp. I have used this method several times and it really works. The broken heel block can also be doweled if you can get the pieces to fit back together nicely. I have doweled several of them with both hardwood, and brass rod.

I recently rebuilt a Japanese copy of your guitar, and a local blues player went nuts over it, bought it from me  and loves it. Some people are really into slotted head stocks.

[scott houston]

i was wondering about dowelling the block and your sugestions will be tried

thanks it totally makes sense is hide glue the proper choice or tight bond

[Mark Pollock]

Hmm. Has that neck block been glued before? If not, hide glue would probably be your friend. You could use a suction cup to force it in, and then clamp it shut. If it has been glued before - oh boy. Take some time to figure out what has been done.

I don't like the look of the binding around the neck. Did the block actually slip under the top? And has it been glued already? Something ain't right there.

Just for clarification, is the heel break the only break on the neck?

Damn fine project there - make sure you make good use of the greatest luxury that you have - TIME. There is no rush to complete this thing. A series of small, well-thought out repairs will turn out far better then doing a minimal number of very complicated ambitious repairs.

[scott houston]

hey thanks for the tips i am taking my time for sure wich is why i joined this forum to get as many opinions as i can about how to go about it. it doesn't look like the block has been glued before but not sure yet i have to get a little deeper in there and see mike had some suggestions about drilling through the crack and squeezing glue in that way with a dowel leaving the dowell in after  but i think the crack is already through to the other side and the suction cup might work for me. ive dry clamped the area and it seems to fit back together nicely on one side the other has something blocking it from closing i think glue i missed from steaming the neck off that got trapped in the crack i'm going to clean this out tonight and should have a better idea of the extent of the damage and yes the heal is the only break in the neck however the fret board has been sawed off at 12th fret (the old way aparently to remove a neck) i'm either going to replace the fret board or try to re-glue it but that is step 3 or 4 on my list for now i'm just worrying about  the body

this is a seriously cool guitar with a long story and great history some real players have jammed on it as it was in a radio station in cleveland in the 60/70's. the guy who owned it toured with the boss among others and this guitar was his favorite jamming guitar until he stepped on it one night along time ago and broke her in two.

anyways thanks for the advice ill post pics of how its going as i go just waiting for a couple more opinions on it before i get to glueing

i am intending on using hide glue wich i will heat up and inject into the crack with a syringe and suction cup possibly drilling into the crack a bit to make sure the glue penetrates then plugging with a dowel. i could also drill on an angle from the top down into the crack and inject glue that way as well if needed pluging that hole with a dowel as well.....that should work ....thanks again and if anyone has better idea let me know in the next couple days before i start this procedure 

wish me luck

scotty

p.s. i feel like im actually performing surgery on this not repairing it...lol

[scott houston]

the block is mostly solid just the 2 top corners broke off when the neck broke it looks like they broke clean and should go back together if the gluing tricks work

[Mark Pollock]

If you don't have a glue pot, I have a cheap way to make one here:

http://summergarageluthier.blogspot.com/2013/03/worst-nut-ever-hot-...

Mark

[scott houston]

thanks i actually saw something similar and was going to make it until i found liquid hide glue at my local woodworking shop. this stuff i can heat slightly making it more viscus and hopefully inject it in the neck block break

[Jeffrey L. Suits]

Not a good idea.  Hardware store liquid hide glue is highly suspect.