A nylon strung guitar, tuned down

[Steve Lunn]

Hi, My cousin sings and plays guitar, but because she used to be an opera singer she tunes standard tuning down quite a bit. The question is, could I design and build her a guitar that would allow this tuning without causing fret buzz and really slack strings, I hope this doesn't sound too silly as it is my first posting. By the way she sings a latin jazz style these days, many thanks,
Steve

[Donald A. Fortune]

Hey Steve-- have you ever entertained the thought of making a barratone guitar??
Donald

[Steve Lunn]

Hi Donald, Thanks for the suggestion. I will have a chat with my cousin tommorrow night and get back to you. Thanks to Bob and Tim also, I will show my cousin your replies so she can respond, all the best for now
Steve

[Bob Webster]

Yeah, a baritone guitar was my first reaction, too. How low does she want to tune down the guitar?

Bob

[Tim Mace]

I've had the low E down to a B but tuning all nylon down is not so much a buzz as a flap.I don't understand
the reasoning being related to having been an Opera singer. Why not use a Capo?IMO not a good idea to down tune over 2 steps and that's really pushing it tonally and playability wise for the standard scale length of a classical or steel string. What's the scalelength of a Baritone Guitar?

[Ned Knepp]

I have a couple of thoughts about this. The first is that I'm wondering why (at the risk of being pelted by stones from the classical music crowd) the guitar can't be a steel string.They tolerate low tuning much better than nylon strings

The second thought is that if she tunes it down too much, why not tune up? I'm saying this because the longer scale of a baritone may cause issues in fingering unless she has big hand/long fingers. I've only seen a couple of baritones in person and one had something like a 27 in. scale length and the other was around 30 in. That not only stretches your arm but it stretches the space between frets that is fairly significant in the first position.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in the power of capos and use one on the 5th fret a lot to differentiate my playing from that of another guitar in the praise band at church. I'd really like to have a martin 5-XX of some sort but I am a "man of constant sorrow"... besides, I don't really need it. It could be that a guitar this size could be tuned to fit her needs or even complement her range by being tuned higher. Or not?

Ned

[FRANK]

one thing you can check into is lengthening the string length not the scale length although this will also help slightly to. but if you had a luthier build you a guitar and you said that the first thing that I would think of is string length. I do this a lot with electric guitars going string through body and also stretching them out through string Farrell's and beyond what they would have if I had installed a tail piece,instead I pop on a bridge and stretch out to almost the end and drill holes for Farrells but longer string length will defiantly tighten up the strings I dont know how you would go about this feat with a classical Guitar but I would be willing to make something to work

[Cliff Morris]

I think Ned is onto something with the idea of tuning up. If she really wants to stay with nylon strings she could go with a tenor or even a baritone ukulele. There is a good uke forum, ukulele underground, where she could learn a great deal about the uke world. Amazing music is being made on them. Look up John King Bach prelude ukulele on You-Tube for a real mind blower performance. The re entrant tuning makes for unique voicing oppertunities or she could go with the "low" c or g tuning (depending on if its a tenor, baritone or concert size uke). Search out Lyle Ritz or Herb Otha Sr. for some great ukulele jazz. The short scale allows for some neat stretches on extension chords.

[Steve Lunn]

Hi, I have now talked it through and heard the problem. She likes to play Jobim- Bossa-nova, and feels happiest singing with E tuned down to C, but then the guitar struggles to sound good at all. She says the Ukelele would not be an option as she prefers to stick to six strings. Thanks again for all your responses

[Mac Walker]

One other option:

The slack string is caused by lower tension due to downtuning.

Try a heavier guage string, it will require more tension to reach the same pitch.

Your guage options are a lot more limited with nylon than with steel strings, but the heaviest nylon guage you can find would be worth a shot. Baritone guitars are very difficult to play, especially playing chords near the nut.

If she chooses this route, make sure she doesn't ever tune back to standard with the heavy strings, as this might be a little risky to the guitar.

[Ned Knepp]

Maybe it would work if you could combine Paul's idea of longer string length with Mac's idea of heavier gauge strings. I don't have a lot of experience playing classical guitars, mostly because they all feel a bit sloppy to me. I'd never considered tuning one down before this thread popped up but I still can't help but wonder if a steel string instrument wouldn't, ultimately, be better for her needs.

Ned

[Cliff Morris]

Steel string probably would be best but she is probably also not happy about the conditioning she would need to her fingertips to do that. Also very tough on fingernails, assuming she plays fingerstyle. Maybe an archtop with flatwound strings would work for her. They typically use heavier gauge strings and would have the longer overall string length.

[Steve Lunn]

Thanks guys, I think she is very comfortable with nylon strung, she taught me guitar nearly 40 years ago!! I think I'll try seeking heavier gauge strings and if this doesn't work maybe I'll build a guitar with a slightly longer scale lengtrh, but not too large a sound box.