I am thinking of have someone else do a refret on my guitar

[Luke Single]

I have been doing repair work for a few years now. I haven't quite graduated to doing refrets on customers guitars. I have done a bunch for myself. I do a lot of other repair work too. I have a '56 junior that I would like to Refret. I was thinking it would be a good guitar to have another trusted luthier do so I can kind of evaluate my own work in comparison. Kind of a gauge to see if I am ready for the big leagues. What do you guys think?

It's good to have a reality check once in a while, right?

[Luke Single]

Here are a couple pictures, the frets I think could be original but I love this guitar, except for the frets are a little too small and too low.

[Russell Vance]

Sweet, they don't make em like that anymore which is a shame.

I spent a lot of time learning to refret and while I'm happy with the consistency and capability we have now, I'm still learning about fretting literally every day.   It seems that every instrument will tell you something about itself (sometime things you don't want to know or see) depending on how it was made, how it was played and how it was treated.  

Even today I still have some trepidation when removing the first fret in the series - how much heat, will it come up clean, will it take fingerboard with it, will the slot be sound or rotted, will the slot be deep/narrow  enough, how will the binding react, can the fingerboard or inlays take a dressing, how is the relief going to end up, and then there are Les Pauls with T binding and rolled binding edges etc etc.   You also haven't lived until you've punched out frets sideways in CBS era necks - that is a moment I remember well.  

A recent post showed just how much fret wire we end up with - and it's a lot, every guitarist has his preference and every fingerboard will have a natural fit, and now we have to duplicate the range with stainless steel and Evo if you are a flat top dude.

I learnt most of my 101 fretting technique from the original Trade Secrets (StewMac books I recall) books and associated books - but these days there are excellent refretting tools and jigs/equipment to do consistent and professional work.   I'm not a traditionalist, everything gets glued, and I have never hammered a fret but admire those who do.

But, Luke, this subject is so wide as to discourage answers - there is literally too much to discuss to do the subject justice - you just need to keep reading everything, start thinking about the fret and fingerboard relationship to the guitar and the geometry required for the playing style and do a lot of refrets.

For a genuine 56 I'd suggest you pay someone if you don't think yr up to it, but on the other hand if you're happy with what you do with your own instruments why not use it a showcase of your talents, to show off to yourself.  I just did a couple of Juniors and they are straight forward apart from adjusting the P-90 Height. A 56 with original frets has been under a bed for 50 years.

Regards,

Rusty.   

[Luke Single]

Thanks Russell. i think I'm comfortable with my fretting, but I almost never see someone else's work, unless it's bad work. I think having someone else do it so that I can evaluate the job will give me a good reference point on my own work. I have. A local guy who does fabulous work and I would trust with anything. I think it would be good opportunity for me to ask some questions and get confirmation or have a realization about my work. I read ALOT, stewmac, don teeter, Ford, YouTube, DVD. I have read the refretting book 500 times and watch the SM refret videos 500 times as well as just about anything I can get my hands on, I'll continue to do so, like you said you continue to learn everyday that is my goal.

[Ned Knepp]

Any Chance he'd let you hang out while he did the work or is he concerned about competition?

[Luke Single]

It's hard to tell. That is defiantly on my rador. I know he is really busy. We aren't on a first name basis, I don't think he is worried about the competition but I think he would be worried about me taking time away from him. I have contacted him before and he is usually very short with me. For example I asked him what strength epoxy and brand he used and his response was "it varies" end email. I also asked about his shop one time and if I could come take a couple notes, just before I started to build mine, and he just answered my minimum questions, very short.

As I am writing this I know of a few other luthiers around town, maybe I could search them out and find someone who let me shadow while they work. I'll bring lunch!

[Mike Kolb]

His attitude may come-across a bit harsh but I can empathize with the guy you have in mind.  It's tough to put into words but I really like working alone and it makes me nervous to have a customer looking over my shoulder when working on his or her guitar.

Every time I go to the dentist, the thought runs-through my noggin about how cool it would be (for the dentist) if folks could somehow "drop off their teeth", let the dentist do his thing in peace, then come back and pick 'em up later.  

Heck, if I were the dentist, it'd drive me flat nuts to have the patient (the customer) literally in my face while doing the work... but I s'pose they're used-to it. 

Be that as it may, given your experience and enthusiasm, I vote for doing your own frets. I'd bet you'll take your time and do a wonderful job.  But, should anything go amiss, you've always got "the guy" in your side pocket to do any corrections.  

Confidence, patience, the right tools and the willingness to do a great job should pay-off nicely for you!

[Luke Single]

Thanks Mike. Yea no disrespect to the Luthier I am talking about. He's a nice dude in person and hey at the end of the Day it's all about making money. I totally get it.

[Russell Vance]

HiLuke,

Maybe not all about making money - I'm all for making money because it's essential if I'm to stay in business - and I go out of my way to be efficient and competitive to get enough cash flow to allow me us function.  But, we all started as luthiers and techs and the passion either remains or it doesn't, but usually if you don't make any money and work yr ass off for long enough for no reward the passion seems to go away sooner rather than later.

I get approached on a regular basis by customers who just want to look at us work, or hang out, or do some part time work - it's very flattering but all of these things stress me so I just say no, in the nicest possible way.  Nothing personal and I like company but its just disruptive to our daily flow.

Concentrate on learning and doing and as Mike says, if it doesn't go well you have someone in the wings who can help out - which also gives you a place to relate what you did to what he did.

Enjoy it,

Rusty.

[Thomas James]

I got into this by working / teaching at music stores. When I started I had to refer jobs that where above my skills at the time. I became a source of work for various people and their specialties. Those same people became willing friends. Maybe some similar arrangement would work for you. In the meantime, I would encourage you to refret that Gibson. Make it a mission to make it perfect step by step. No other way to really learn.

[Luke Single]

Cool thanks guys. Sounds like the opinion is unanimous, I'll do the refret.

[Ned Knepp]

Personally, I don't think that being uncomfortable with refretting a particular instrument is necessarily a reason to avoid it BUT my take is that you might want to think about how far outside of your comfort level is really is. Usually, our level of comfort is not the same as our level of capability. If you are really capable of doing an acceptable job then, maybe, you should do it to help expand your comfort level. Does it really require a perfect job, as you define it or will it really be OK with what you are capable of doing? I understand the reservation. I have a guitar that I'm not comfortable working on too but the truth is that I'm completely capable of doing almost anything it needs... just not with the level of expertise I feel this particular instrument deserves. At some point I will need to evaluate the difference between my comfort level and my actual level of capability. Sometimes we need to push past our comfort level to expand our capability.  

 One of the best skills any technical person can learn is how to recognize when they are getting in over their head. Maybe the second best is to recognize when they can and should push a bit past that point. If we don't do that sometimes, we don't grow. In the end, it's your decision and I won't say that you should or shouldn't. Just keep in mind that expanding your capabilities on an instrument you personally own is safer than doing it on something that belongs to someone else. 

 

[Luke Single]

Yea Ned, that makes a lot of sense. I am certainly capable of doing a fret job. I'm proud of the work I've done so far. I think pushing my comfort level a bit is a good reason to tackle this job. Now I think I need to practice my neck resets a little more before I do one on a vintage Martin but frets I'm good with so let's do it.