scalloped braces glued down with grain running vertically instead of horizontally

[greg jacobs]

I made a mistake and glued down braces top and back with grain vertical to the plates instead of horizontally. Should I chisel them up and start over or continue scalloping the braces. The guitar I am building is an OM, sitka spruce top and honduran rosewoodback. Not happy about the mistake. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Greg Jacobs
Austin, TX

[Ned Knepp]

Hi Greg,
Do you mean that the grain is running at a right angle to the plate, as in, you cut the braces across the grain rather than with the grain?

Ned

[greg jacobs]

I cut them correctly - when I glued them I glued the wrong side down - looking at the edge of the plate the braces grain is vertical and not horizontal. I didn't realize it until I started scalloping the braces. Got in a hurry.

Thanks for response
Greg Jacobs Austin, TX

[Russell Vance]

Um, this is in the quartersawn vs flatsawn arena and therefore has the possibility of being contentious. If the guitar is for yourself or someone related, leave it as it is and wait - if nothing moves much and it sounds ballpark (which I say is highly likely) you have no further action. If it is for a customer who may not be disposed to thinking past conventional wisdoms and conventions I guess you are in for a few late nights putting it back to how the book says. My two bobs worth. Rusty.

[Jay Gordon]

Hang on..if the grain of the braces is perpendicular to the top plate then you've glued them correctly. IE. the brace grain should not be parallel to the top. Sounds like you've glued them correctly.

[Len Biglin]

Yea thats what I thought, you should have the tight grain lines running along the top of the braces.Hey Rusty I wonder how "two bob's worth " translates in USA ?Len

[Dave Yelverton]

I think our US cousins use "two cents worth" but of course two bob GBP is worth 8 cents. Hence can we conclude that Russell's advice has four times the value?

[Dave Yelverton]

Whoops! Sorry Rusty, I'm undervaluing you! Two bob is actually 16 cents US, so your advice has eight time the value of a "two cent's worth".
Of course in the UK we say "tuppence worth" which is the equivalent of 3.36 cents. What are we to conclude from this?

Dave

[Tim Mace]

So you messed up and put the braces on correctly.Don't let that happen again!

[greg jacobs]

I misspoke, I glued the braces with end grain horizontal to the plates when I believe they should be vertical to the quartersawn plates. Shouldn't the brace grain run parallel to the plates vs perpendicular to the quartersawn plates?

[William F.Eden]

If you got the ends of the grain up when you look down at them you have it right. So in fact they should be running across the ones belowe on the top or back. I hope this is as clear as mud. Good luck on your prodject Bill.""""""""

[Ron Frazier]

This is sounding confusing to me!

The grain of the braces should run the same as the top wood.

If you do a strength test you will find out that flat grain is stronger than vertical but it can split much easier. It took me a long time to figure this out.

I restored a classical guitar from the late 1800s that had flat grain braces and it never had a split in one brace so I think you can do what you want and it will be OK.

My 1936 Martin D 28 has the grain of the top running at a 45 degree angle and the top is very good and the sound is outstanding!

Go figure. I am still trying to find the guy they call They say I am still looking.

It took me years to find why you make the necks of mohanagy instead of a harder wood but I now find the wood is much stabler and the truss rod works better and it sure is easier to carve and sands easier.

Ron

[Dave Yelverton]

Good point Ron. "They", "the consensus pf opinion", "those in the know", or in more particular cases, Irving Sloane, William Cumpiano, et al. all tell us that the grain should be vertical so that's what I've always done without question. I've assumed that this is because the bar is stiffer and less flexible at right angles to the grain allowing it to be cut down to a greater extent then if the layers are parallel to the s/b. Also, it seems reasonable to avoid a situation where the bar can split along the layers, which I have seen quite frequently.
When I build lutes however, the received wisdom is that the bar grain should be parallel to the sound board. Again I've never questioned it; the Old Masters must have been right, surely? And it may well be the case; the tone quality when the grain is parallel may be subtly different. The point is I've never tested it! How many of us have?

That's my three ha'pence worth! (2.5 cents worth)

Dave