Luthiers Mercantile (LMI) Closing up Shop!

[Walter W Wright]

and their excellent "FGX" yellow wood glue is already sold out :(

suggestions for a replacement? anybody know anything about titebond 50?

[Greg Mirken]

They're not making this stuff up in the back room. If their supply is sold out maybe they will tell [someone] who they buy it from.

Greg Mirken

[Redacted]

http://franklinadhesivesandpolymers.com/Wood-Adhesives-US/Wood-Adhe...

[Walter W Wright]

cool, i've looked at that but it doesn't tell me much;

my main worries are about actual strength and about creep under stress in say a hot car; i've always assumed the LMI wood glue was better than regular titebond original at least, but i just don't know

after all, it was frank ford's own photo essay about the creep resistance under moderate heat of hot hide glue vs regular titebond on this very forum that got me worrying about stuff like this   

[sylvan]

Has anyone found a supplier for Titebond 50 in gallon containers?

[Paul Verticchio]

Titebond 50 should never be used in instrument building or repairs. 
It will not release with heat if future repairs. 
Titebond ORIGINAL is an industry standard. 
If you need T-50 in a gallon pail, contact Franklin Adhesives by phone and ask them to direct you to a distributor in your locale.  

[Walter W Wright]

what are you basing this on? have you used it?

if true then it might be exactly what the doctor ordered for things like headstock breaks where there's no reasonable case for wanting to ever undo the joint but a strong case for having it not soften and creep if left in a hot car

[Paul Verticchio]

To repair wood joints, an adhesive must be able to release its “hold” using either/and dry heat or steam.
T-50 is specifically formulated to NOT release using heat/water. It’s the woodworking equivalent of epoxy.
Do your homework Walter and some research into industry standard practices and think about the next guy that may have to release the joint.
Do what you like as I bid farewell to giving solid advice and having amateur hacks ignore it.
Have you noticed that the majority of professionals who used to post frequently have become silent on the forum?
It’s b.s. challenges like yours that’s driven them away.
Best of luck with continuing as a hack.
Bye folks.

[Redacted]

Calm down and answer the questions:

"what are you basing this on? have you used it?"

[Walter W Wright]

i apologize, my questions were not meant as a "challenge", b.s. or otherwise, they were genuine

again, what are you basing your description of titebond 50 acting like epoxy on? i didn't really get that clarity from their website description of it other than a vague mention of it being heat-resistant

if it really resists being opened with heat & even steam, does that also mean it won't creep under moderate heat, tension and time like titebond original can?  

of course there are a whole bunch of guitar building and repair glue joints that it would be a disaster to make non-removable, an acoustic dovetail neck set being the obvious example. seems to me though there are other joints where this is not the case, typically repairs like headstock breaks. if titebond 50 really does act like epoxy in that it won't creep under heat then maybe it's the right tool for that kind of repair job?

i'm not asserting, i'm asking because i genuinely don't know!

yours truly,

an amatuer hack ;)    

[Taffy Evans]

Hi, first, I also consider the next repairer in two ways, joints that are meant to come apart will do so, if needed, so I use a glue that allows this to happen, and joints that I never want to fail I use a different glue. And second, my out-of-site work has to be as clean as the work that is easily seen.

But reading on from the subject of glue made me feel a bit uneasy. I don't think it's called for to call others who use this forum to learn and share hacks or call their comments BS. I don't understand how someone not accepting of another's advice can be so upsetting to the person giving it. I keep in mind that if the person asking the question does not take the advice, there are hundreds of other members who may run with it. It's all about sharing.

If BS keeps the professionals away, then responses like the one above would certainly make me think twice about asking a question, if I were not a professional. 

In fact, I visit this forum, and others, so as to help and support others in the learning stage of Lutherie be it building or repairs, as others have helped me over many years. 

Oh! I feel that Walter did not have to apologize.

There, I feel better now.

Taff

[Walter W Wright]

thanks, but to be clear i was nowhere close to "not accepting" the advice, i was in fact eagerly hoping for some clarity, like "i tried it myself and it sucked", or "here's a link to a woodworking magazine article about the stuff", something like that 

[Russell Vance]

Hmmm, 

I am one of those professionals that Paul V mentioned has eschewed engaging with “well meaning amateurs”  who pop up from time to time on this excellent place to meet and learn.  This not to say that “Well meaning professionals” are necessarily right all the time ( Space Shuttles for instance). 
There is science, common knowledge and simple facts that support the majority of information offered here and, for the main, that basis is sufficient for us.  But then there are the more nuanced or philosophical replies that seek to prevent future problems by power of veto or dissent.   Personally I don’t Use HHG to build our instruments, preferring Titebond Original as a satisfactory glue for our purposes.  It’s fine for defined areas of instrument building, but not for us.
 Similarly, I’m not a great fan of anything that is permanent (Asian Mystery Glue coupled with Asian Mystery Wood comes to mind).  I agree that sometimes epoxy etc is necessary for specific repairs or build procedures (we use it to glue in pulltruded graphite neck reinforcements)  and some “shattered” headstock repairs with graphite woven fibre.
But:  philosophically, we build for a couple of lifetimes of use and with that in mind we do not use glues that cannot be separated if required.  
I’m pretty sure that after 20 years of watching Paul’s dedicated and meaningful advice to the forum I can say that frustration and lack of time is a reasonable excuse to occasionally be less that diplomatic.  So, maybe we just take a deep breath, count one’s blessings, and get back to discussing the merits of flatsawn versus quartersawn - those who have been around for 40 years will understand this.

Bless us all,

Rusty