Crushed place, upper bout, Larrivee parlor guitar

[dep]

First, thanks to Frank for starting this great place. I'm pretty sure that along with frets.com it will become one of my favorites.

I almost entirely mess around with banjos and am not hugely experienced at that. Now I've been given a project that looks to have one chance to get it right, and I defer to those who have experience in figuring out how to proceed.

As the picture shows -- presuming I attached it correctly -- this little Larrivee got whacked by something, leaving a crushed-in area in the upper bout. The break is about 3/4x 2 1/2 inches. I have not touched it.

The question, of course, is: How do I fix it? I can get to the break from the inside and push it back. I'm wondering if I should wet the wood, maybe put it under magnifying glass and try to pick up the individual fibers with a dental pick, and glue it with -- what? -- or if there's some more sensible way of proceeding. I'm presuming that it is not going to be cosmetically very nice no matter what I do.

Kind of hoping that this sort of thing is so common that there's a quick-and-easy fix.

Another question: is wood this thin typical of inexpensive guitars?

Many thanks in advance.

[Jim Bancroft]

Being you can reach the bash, I'd push and flex from the inside, gently, trying to work it back to where it was originally. Once pushed out and if it stays in that position, I'd work some thin hot hide glue into the bash. You will have to probably flex it some, again, to get the glue worked in. Let it dry and I normally place a thin side strip, on the inside, to help reinforce the area.

Another method would be glue it with superglue, once the bash is pushed out, carefully apply the glue and it will wick it's way into all the fine cracks without flexing it. Let that dry and also place a reinforcement strip.

On a few instruments I have made an inner and outer caul that matches the curvature of the damaged area and clamped it, once the glue was applied. It may be a bit tricky clamping the cauls, but it can be done.

All acoustic instruments have thin woods, that's why they sound good.

Jim

[dep]

Thanks, Jim.

Am wondering if there are any special tricks for trying to get back together the edges and ends, which have some very fine splintering, or whether it's best just to push it back best i can, get the shape back as it should be, then sand, fill (with something gotten at Stew-Mac which, fortunately, is here in town), and apply new finish in the repaired spot. it's that matte finish, fwiw.

[Jim Bancroft]

Once the bash is glued, then for finish touchup. I wouldn't sand or fill anything, it will show like a sore thumb. If you need slight leveling use a razorblade scraper.
This is what I would use for a simple finish touchup. Clean the area with naphtha, next apply some shellac with an artist brush, let it dry for 8 hours, next apply thin superglue, carefully,(you don't want it to run). Once the glue is good and dry, scrape it down flush with adjacent finish. Add more superglue and scrape it until it is built up with original finish. look at in in reflective light until the area is level and any splits and cracks are filled. Next you can wet sand and buff out the area, start with 800 grit and work up to 1500 grit. Next buff area with various grits of polishing compound(available from stew mac). The superglue will actually be the finish, or you can add lacquer on top of the glue if you want(before you wet sand and buff). to make the matt finish, finally buff with 0000 steel wool. It won't look perfect, but shouldn't look bad.

Jim

[dep]

Okay, folks, here we are, ready for help, part II. I got the wood back in place as well as i could, which given the damage was far shy of perfect. the contour was fine, but the edges were not. I made a reinforcing strip of cross-grain mahogany and hot hide glued it in, clamping with magnets and a shot bag, and only then wicked in some Stew-Mac #10 superglue.

You can't really tell from the picture, but the contour is right and i've sanded down to 600 grit. The surface is perfectly even but for the thickness of the finish missing in the repaired area. What the picture does show is darkening from the glue. Now, I need to figure a.) how to color the glued areas to make them blend in a little better -- i do not expect them to be invisible -- and b.) how to match the original Larrivee stain.

Anyone here have knowledge on either of these? I'm thinking that for staining the idea would be to start with something that colors it only a little, and just keep at it until I'm there. But matching the actual color, as opposed to depth of color, is a bit of a mystery to me. Ideas?

Thanks!

[danove]

Save some sanding dust from the wood.

Cave out a little from the top of the very
dark parts and stuff some of the dust.

Then drip thin CA glue into it.

When dried hard, level it with a razor blade
(I believe Frank has told about this method)

For finish, I recommend french polish with dry stain on the side,
if you cannot get the original stuff on advice from Larrivee.

For best result, sand the sides all the way around first.
Maybe also some layer from the back, if you feel uncertain
about how to match colors.

[dep]

I've dropped a note to Larrivee in hope of finding some of the original stain or a reasonable facsimile thereof. I'm less concerned with the finish itself than I am the stain. If I can get the color right, the rest will be pretty easy.

But that's a huge "if."

[Jim Bancroft]

Looks like a red mahogany stain might work. Stew Mac sells a variety that would work. I prefer water base on such a repair, it seems to match better.
Next would be finish touchup. I'd probably buildup the crack areas with superglue and level. Then you are ready for lacquer. Spray a number of coats to build up the finish, then wet sand a buff out.

Jim

[dep]

Many thanks re. the stain. Though the picture doesn't show it, the crack areas are already perfectly level. The whole area is level though finish-rhickness lower then the finished area.

Fortunately (? I actually think it looks awful), the overall finish is that flat finish that is favored by some, so ultimate finish will be by steel wool.

But I'll be at Stew-Mac first thing in the morning, getting some of the stain. I'll probably take the instrument and see if that's any help.

The water-base stuff sounds especially good -- can it be thinned down so that I can apply the color just a little at a time? I presume it can.

[Bob Gaddis]

I don't see a picture, but I think Jim's approach is the most rational and conventional. A more expensive alternative would be to cut a patch and replace the crushed area, but that would be more difficult. I didn't realize Larrivee made inexpensive guitars. I think they start at around $1500. Most inexpensive guitars are plywood, if yours is solid wood, that's good. Is it mahogany or rosewood or some other species? Just be glad it's not plywood....crushed plywood is really hard to fix.

[dep]

I don't think anybody could make plywood this thin -- it is much thinner than, say, the wood in my mahogany Gibson tenor. It's almost torn, like cardboard or early Formica. I wondered if it were maybe some composite, such as the little Martin seems to use, with a very thin veneer. I has the consistency of a chipboard case!

I'll try again to upload the picture. I get to where it says not to close this window until the picture has uploaded, and there it sits, pretty much forever. Nope, didn't work this time, either.

I've tried attaching it at the end. We'll see if that works. Ah. It did. You can take a look. Pretty awful, isn't it.

[Jim Bancroft]

That's more serious than I thought, it's nearly a hole, with a break across the grain. It still may be possible to push things back together, but the pieces may just fall apart. You still may be able to match them back together, like a puzzle. Being it's close to the sound hole it will be easy to reach.
If you can't get it to fit together, the next option is to cut out the damage and apply a patch. A football shaped patch will work and look good. You will have to bend the wood to match the side curvature.

Jim

[dep]

Scary, ain't it?

I'm hoping -- you have no idea how much I'm hoping -- at least to fit the pieces together instead of trying to shape a patch. if i can do that, I can glue it up and put a slippery bag of shot inside the thing, and another one on the outside, which should hold it just so until it sets up.

And I think we have another example of why a gig bag is often worse than nothing, because it gives the impression -- so to speak -- of protection when it doesn't actually provide any.