Neck problem on a Martin 000-18

[Brad Elbein]

There's a young man--the son of a friend of mine--who wants to fix the neck of a mahogany Martin 000-18 guitar.  I volunteered to help, figuring I'd learn something.  (I'm in the middle of my second build, an octave mandolin.)  The crack in the neck doesn't look too terrible: 

 

I know the guitar probably isn't worth fixing, economically, but it will be a learning experience for him (and for me), so I thought I'd solicit help.  Does anyone know what the neck joint looks like?  Am I right that he's going to have to steam the joint and then shim it?  We can't tell anything about the action because this baby hasn't had strings for many a year.  Otherwise the guitar looks to be in excellent condition.  Many thanks in advance for your help.

[Joshua Levin-Epstein]

 I do not see a crack, I see that the neck has slipped in its dovetail and needs to be reset. The guitar is worth fixing. In fact the guitar is worth paying someone familiar with resetting Martin guitar necks to do so. There are a host of things that can go wrong doing this repair (even if you are experienced) that will greatly affect the value of the instrument. That's not the learning experience you have in mind. Perhaps the best help you can offer is to locate a competent repair person.

Just my opinion.

Joshua

[Mark Pollock]

Joshua is right, you need to do a reset. The fingerboard needs to be released from the top, and then the dovetail joint might just pop out, since it appears to be loose. If not, then steaming and all of the standard reset work. The guitar probably IS worth fixing, so one option would be for him to find someone to evaluate the value of th guitar fairly, and then look at trade options. You should look up the serial number to get a date for the guitar, and then do some searching for the model and date on EBay to see what kind of prices people are asking, which might be rather insane, but it's a starting point.

[Brad Elbein]

I misread the label, probably misled by EmmyLou in "Listen to the Radio" ...

It's a Martin 000-15 (not the M).  They bought it new for $600 10 years ago. 

When I thought it was the 000-18, I misinformed the owner that it might be worth several $1000.  She said, "Oh, who cares, we're just using it for swatting flies.  We aren't going to fix it."  I haven't yet called her back to say her fly swatter might be worth high hundred or a $1000.

Some people love instruments, and others ... swat flies with them. 

[Paul Verticchio]

Hiya Mark.

Excellent advice on checking on line auctions for value. 

May I add that one should NOT look at the asking price.  Watch the auction and at its end, look for the selling price (if it sells).  "Most" folks who auction guitars on EBay are quite simply delusional about their asking prices(;

Have a good one (:

[Mark Pollock]

Oh, the prices on Ebay are all over the place. I should have said "Completed auctions where the instrument actually sold.", but then, it seems that instruments that need repair are now going for an absolute mint. I may be old-fashioned, but there is just no excuse for a Harmony Sovereign in worn condition with the neck off to sell for $250. NO excuse. Sure, I love those guitars, but that is insane.

[Ned Knepp]

This is probably a solid mahogany / spruce instrument and definitely worth paying someone with experience to fix it. It's NOT what I would consider a "starter" guitar for someone to repair.  As the other posters already pointed out, the neck needs to be removed and reset. You can't just glue it back down and expect it to hold. It would probably be better to pay for someone with more experience to work on this one.  A neck reset isn't such a good place to start learning about guitar repair, at least not on a guitar of this quality.  

[Brad Elbein]

Mr. Knepp: you said "isn't such a good place to start learning about guitar repair"

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn:  what would be a good place to start learning about how to repair my instruments?

[Paul Verticchio]

Here's the best 1st book to buy to learn guitar repair.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Frett...

It's "the bible" for beginners and experienced folks alike. It's not an option, it's a 'must have'.

Then, buy other repair, finishing, building & fretting books as your skills and quest for information grows.

[Ned Knepp]

Please, Brad, I aint no one. Ned is fine. ( If my kids saw you call me "Mr." they's laugh their butts off.)

If the guitar belonged to you I might tell you something different but I've been there and found that I need to be careful what I do on other people's property. I'm a hobbyist so I don't get a lot of practice like some of the other guys here but I have learned to do a neck reset... finally. I'm not very quick and I wouldn't (yet) try it on a really good instrument.  As much as it pains me to admit this, the first reset I attempted I re-did at least 20 times before I finally got a fit with the correct angle, alignment and a tight enough heel to actually stay in place under tension. (mileage may vary)  As you can understand, it was good that I owned the instrument. 

I guess that I'm saying that what you do to your own property is one thing but you should think very carefully about what you might attempt with someone else's.  My suggestion is that you start looking around for some old beaters and dive in to those. There are some decent old guitars floating around that are in bad shape and could turn out to be nice players if you repair them. This approach also lets you build your collection of tools up as you go. Since you are already building, I'm assuming that you have a lot of what you need  but there are some tools that you will need to make or buy to disassemble the instruments.  

If I were to make a recommendation, and it's purely personal opinion, I would recommend that you pick up an old Kay built archtop for your first neck reset. (Look for something in the '50's or earlier with real binding instead of paint for better materials.)  I think that archtop necks are more forgiving when it comes to getting all the angle to add up since you are working with an adjustable bridge. If your mandolin is a carved top instrument, you may already be aware of this. I would recommend that you stay away from "made in Japan"  instruments for now. The mystery glue can make them very frustrating to get apart and it's hard enough to disassemble a guitar for the first time without that problem. The prices seem to be going up on them all the time but old mahogany Harmony flat tops seem to make decent if not expensive guitars and the ALL need a neck reset. I've got a Favilla in my collection waiting for attention that wasn't all that much and should make an interesting instrument when it's playing again. ( It doesn't so much need a neck reset as it needs a total body reset)

The long term project I'm working on now is a somewhat strange antique guitar that I think was made in Germany. It's solid maple/spruce with, maybe, a box wood neck. It was cheap when it was built and it's only redeeming quality is that it was made cheap when good wood was cheap. Just about everything was wrong with it and I got it for a song and sang it myself. I decided to replace the split and broken ladder bracing with an X brace which is a first for me in a restoration. Sooner or later, I will finish it and probably be let down that it doesn't sound like a hundred year old Martin. Whenever I get it finished, I may have nearly a hundred dollars in it with the original purchase and materials and  thousands of dollars in labor. I'm not figuring on getting back the labor part of it. I'm getting that in fun.

[Mark Pollock]

You are on it! Frets.com is a great resource!

I'm a relative newbie as well. Just did my first neck resets a few weeks ago, and they turned out well, but it's been a lead up of years to get to that point. Aside of good reference materials, having a buddy who is experienced in repairs has been the best help.

While I wouldn't hesitate to take on this particular guitar if it was mine, I would be a tad nervous if it was someone else's. And, since it may be under warranty, why hassle? Hopefully Martin can deal with it.

[Paul Verticchio]

If the guitar hasn't had string tension on it for years, there may be other neck issues to resolve along with the reset.

If the instrument is "vintage" (pre 1970 or so) or made before Martin used adjustable trussrods (they started using adjustable rods in '85....it took 'em a while to get with the 20th century), the necks should be checked for straightness in both planes and fretwear.

Neck resets (the entire job of resetting a neck) often includes a fretboard planing & re-profiling.  Any age induced anomalies can be addressed during the reset.  If the frets are too worn, it's a good time to take care of that too.

To echo the other guys, a neck reset is not Guitar Repair 101...or 201 or 301.  It's a complicated and highly skilled process even for the masters. If the kid or his dad are the original owners (unlikely), check with Martin to see if this is covered under their warranty. For the cost of shipping, the repair may be free if it's under warranty.

BTW: Is it a 000-18 or a 000-17 or 000-15? The absence of black binding and a matching heel cap along with the satin finish on the guitar makes me think it is not an 18 series. How old is it?

And ya....it's DEFINITELY worth saving.

Have fun & best of luck. (-:

[Stephen Morgan]

Hello, first if the fingerboard has not become loose from the top then the dovetail has not slipped(unless it has been poorly reset etc..) If this a 000-15 from the last decade or so then it has a bolted joint and just needs to be tensioned and tightened. If there is a laser etched "label" on the heelblock, pop it off (it is taped on) and clamp the guitar to a sturdy bench or have someone hold it and CAREFULLY bend the neck back into position and tighten the bolt, you might want to blow out the joint with some air. Good luck!