Fret Job from Hell

[Robbie Collins]

I just finished refretting a 1973 Yamaha FG-360 acoustic. The fretboard and binding both had bevels on the edge of the fretboard. Unfortunately they were not the same angle.  Has anyone else encountered this problem?  Here's an exaggerated drawing:

Sorry, the yellow wasn't a good choice to show the binding bevel. The owner said this he is the original owner and bought it in Japan in 1973.  He said it was totally original.

You can imagine the problems that arose: (1) getting the fret ends to stay down and (2) filing the frets ends flush without putting a divot in the binding.  I ended up individually kinking the fret ends, supergluing the frets, then using jeweler's files to individually square and bevel the fret ends....took me hours. It didn't help that the binding on the dot side had been re-glued by the owner so I had to remove it, replace the dots and reinstall. 

I thought about removing the bevel when I flattened the neck but really didn't want to take that much wood off. Perhaps I could have changed it from a 16" radius to something tighter but that seemed like taking liberties.

It turned out fine (though the fret ends aren't my best work) but I"m curious at to whether this beveling is normal for older Yamaha guitars and how I could have done this job faster and better.

[Kerry Krishna]

 Howdy Robbie! So the problem here is just one of many that could possibly come up in a refret. This is one of those things that can add to your general knowledge (I bet you will never forget it) and is something that most of us would categorize as "you just swing with the punches". I am not sure I have encountered this exact problem before, but until I get 200 fret-jobs under my belt, I will continue to expect absolutely anything. 

   It sounds to me like you handled it though! Good for you! 

[Thomas James]

I have seen this mostly low budget guitars. It yields those low angle fret ends and narrowed string spacing or strings close to the edge. My solution is to rework or replace the fretboard and binding. Otherwise, do what you've done and work with what you get. Seems to be one of those jobs that out values the instrument at times. 'No' is also a good solution :)

[Robbie Collins]

When I discovered the double bevel problem, Thomas, my first thought was "run!"  I bothered me that I didn't notice it on the initial evaluation and felt that since I took the job I had to make right on it.

[Paul Verticchio]

I'm glad you powered through that one, Robbie.

These early 70's FG series Yamaha's are great utility guitars.  Their perceived 'value' has been unrealistically overinflated over the past few years. The very best ones (MIJ) in great cosmetic AND playing condition are worth only about half of what people think they're worth ($400-$500 actual as opposed to $1000+ 'fantasy' price.).

When I run across a situation like this, I take my time and explain to the customer that certain guitars were manufactured with design flaws. The instant case is a perfect example. I take special care not to 'insult' the instrument and stick to the "here's what's wrong..here's what it's going to take to make it right...and here's how much it's going to cost", and let the customer decide if they want to go with my 'plan' or get a 2nd or 3rd opinion.

I had a similar situation with a 'sentimentally important' 1970 FG-180. After fixing several cracks & cosmetic issues, leveling the frets (surprisingly, it did NOT need a neck reset) and other setup tasks, I noticed the the tuning machines were shot (they weren't too good when new). The owner wanted it kept original. I called the owner & discussed the issue. Once I stated that, with all the work done thus far, it would be a shame to have such a nice instrument be functionally worthless because the original tuners were slipping so badly, a light went off in the owners head and she authorized a new set of Grover 18:1 Sta-Tites. It's all about cordial communication. Remember, you're the expert; not the customer.

The additional re-profiling of the FB, in order to remove the bevel, would have added another 10 minutes to the labor charge and would have made your job MUCH easier and you would have have been happier with your fret ends. Like Kerry said, add this to your 'things learned' library. My personal 'learn form my mistakes' library is bursting at the seams!! I'm going to have to dedicate a new wing!!

Also, rounding (finishing) fret ends on a bound neck [without nibs] is no trickier than on an unbound neck. If you use the proper file(s) and technique (learned through practice, not reading about it in books), it not difficult. I've gone from using 3 different files for a refret to just using a safe edged Cantsaw file. But it took practice and there was a learning curve. The time investment was worth it.

I think that all of us will agree that any refret is a new adventure. Definitely, no two are the same. We're ALL perpetual students of the craft.

Again, kudos to persevering and keeping your customer happy. That is the bottom line in the business side of the profession.

Sorry to be so chatty.  Had some really good java!!!

Best of luck :)

[Robbie Collins]

Luckily, he had already replaced the tuners with gold Grovers. To enhance this look I replaced the truss rod cover screws with gold ones and used gold EVO fretwires.

By "re-profiling" do you mean changing the radius to maybe a 14" or 12" or just staying at it with the 16" radius block until the bevel is gone?

I have discovered the cant file too and now use it for initial crowning and fret ends. I've found the small SM fret end file is pretty cool for fine tuning.

I appreciate "chatty"...thanks for the comments!

[Paul Verticchio]

Yes, Robbie, I was suggesting the re-profiling to bring the FB down 'flush' with the binding. Any of the radii you mentioned would work (with a bridge saddle re-profiling to match). It seems that 16" is pretty common nowadays, but it's an option to offer customers when refretting.

With the Yamaha, it would have reduced the overall neck thickness by about 1/32" which is pretty well undetectable. As I recall, the necks on these were pretty stout so it also may have 'improved' the playability.

BUT, what you did works and is perfectly acceptable.:)

Cant files. I 'Cant" live without them anymore. (Everybody throw rotten tomatoes at the corny vaudevillian NOW!!).

Best of luck our friend :)

[nathan clark]

When I encounter this problem, I usually pre-grind the fret ends with the disc sander and clean up the disc sander marks with 2k on a flat granite slab. Any that end up a shade proud can be knocked back flush with one of those pocket size fine-grade DMT diamond stones riding in the little groove between the bottom of the fret end and the binding. Once you've leveled your frets you can sand the tops of the fret ends with a long bar to ensure that the start of the fret ends (by the playing surface) all align.

Check out photo 12 here:

http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/fender-strat-maple-fretboard-ref...

[Robbie Collins]

Nathan...when use pre-grind the fret ends on the disc sander how do you mark them for length...fine sharpie, exacto knife?

[nathan clark]

Bend wire to almost the same radius as fretboard (so you can fit a .020" feeler gauge under center of fret near first fret slot with fret ends touching binding/edge of fretboard), nip tangs (with or without binding), loosen truss rod, set frets in slots and press ends in a little with finger pressure, clip ends flush to side of fretboard/binding with openin of cutters running parallel to fretboard, grind ends until cutter marks just disappear, drag ends accross 2k sandpaper (or courser sandpaper if large or stainless frets) and check for fit. If frets are a touch too long hand sand, if frets are significantly proud then re-grind ends on disc sander. Install frets, glue frets, touch up any ends that are a shade too long with small diamond stone Rodin in groove between bottom of fret end and binding. Sand top of fret end bevel to run more or less parallel with e strings.

[Robbie Collins]

Thanks guys for the suggestions and encouragement. I guess, statistically, every now and then there will be a fret job that seems either too easy or unnecessarily difficult, but over the long run they will average out.

I anthropomorphized this guitar and said to it "oh, you think I can't hit a curve ball, huh?" Yea! I beat an inanimate object at it's own game!

[Kerry Krishna]

Like I said Robbie, after you have 200 of them under your belt, you will see that there are still problems you have never encountered that will come up. All part of the learning curve  until you stop doing repairs...