Advice Please

[Brian T. Williams]

1. Gibson ES-335 12 string ............2299 GBP.

2. Rickenbacker 360 12..............2099 GBP.

3. Ibanez AS73 12...........380 GBP.

Both the Gibson and the Ric are fine instruments and come with branded hardware; Shaller or Grover tuners etc etc.

Ibanez too is a fine guitar, plays and sounds as good as either of the above for less than a quarter of the price, but is fitted with cheaper generic hardware (as you would expect for the price), so, here's the question.............

If the Ibanez ticks all the boxes regarding build quality, sound and playability, is it better to buy that and spend a couple of hundred pounds fitting quality and reliable hardware (tuners in particular) and end up with an instrument every bit as good as the two so called "premiem" guitars for a third of the price??

[Mark McLean]

Yes - if you like it just as much, and if you are not hung up on brand-name envy. 

[Russell Vance]

Hi Brian,

Probably the wrong forum for this sort of leading question.  If you like the Ibanez guitar and it sounds OK to you; buy it.  The Ibanez hardware you talk about works just fine, it just may not last as long.  

Regards,

Rusty. 

[Brian T. Williams]

Hi Russ, yeah, I take your point. I didn't intend to waste anybody's time, but just wanted a little advice.

The Ibanez tuners are a little "jumpy" and not smooth. I've checked the nut, lubricated it with graphite and the strings are not binding so I could replace with expensive Gotohs; I'm just trying to decide if the cash would be better spent towards one of the premium instruments. 

[Joshua Levin-Epstein]

If you can afford the more expensive instruments, then you should buy whichever one "talks" to you. This talk should include playability, tone and what the kids call "mojo".

Not having seen any of the current models, allow me to speak from the past:

1) The Gibson was always a good guitar. The originals did not have heavy duty tuning machines, which was good because 12 Grovers/Schallers/ whatever make the thing neck heavy. Also, all that weight makes the guitar even more susceptible to a broken peg head. Full size humbuckers would not be my first choice for a 12 string but that's a matter of taste. I also would prefer a stop tailpiece, but that's not a deal breaker. Various forum members will chime in with issues about current Gibson quality. I haven't seen enough new stuff to have an opinion.

2) Nothing sounds like a Rickenbacher. Which is good because there is so much wrong with the design. The peghead is nice and compact and in a perfect world my enemies would be sentenced to eternity restringing Ric 12s*. The truss rods are dubious and the necks tend to be too thin for my taste. But nothing sounds like a Rickenbacher. George Harrison sold a lot of them and said "But they only have one good sound"...

 

3)I have seen a number of the current Ibanez AS 73s. My only problem is there is so much finish on them. I was unaware they made a 12, but  I'll bet it is the most bang for the buck. Once again, full size humbuckers would not be my first choice, but that is me. You may not need to change out any of the hardware. The stuff I've seen was decent enough, not like 60s Klusons.

 

As an aside, if everyone will pardon this narcissistic trip down memory lane, I introduced Pat Metheny to his first Ibanez 12 string. But his Epiphone 12 is still the ultimate for me.

 

* We've all seen movies where we say "That would never happen in real life". One of my favorites is in "That Thing you Do" where the lead singer/guitarist starts to restring his Ric 12 after a show. There's a picture in "Beatles Gear" showing George Harrison restringing his with the guitar between his knees. Poor bastard.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Joshua

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian T. Williams]

"Just my opinion.

 Joshua"

And it's much appreciated, thanks Joshua.

Brian

 

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Brian.

Without answering you question directly, here are my PERSONAL opinions on those instruments.

Gibson: If you value your money, stay away. Plus, with all the cool hardware (btw: Gibson hardware is crap nowadays), why do they still have a 6 saddle bridge for 12 strings?

Ric: a one trick pony that requires two compressors in series to generate any sustain (look at the Roger McGuinn model).

Also, if something goes south, good luck finding someone to work on it without a significant upcharge. Folks either love 'em or hate 'em.   I'm in the latter camp.

Ibanez: Their Artcore Series guitars are excellent platform guitars. They're an incredible value and seem to be consistent in quality.  This is where I'd put my $$$ but I'm NOT a brand loyalist nor am I into 'snob appeal'.

Evaluate the individual instrument and NOT the brand.

[Steve Bettesworth]

My opinion, for what its worth. I played an Ibanez Silver Series bass for years, it’s based upon the Fender jazz. I bought it because back in 76, Fenders were unaffordable by the likes of me and Gibson were seen as the instrument of the ’ enemy’. Second hand was almost unheard of outside of London so copies were the only affordable option. My bass has been through a lot of gigs, travel, loaned out, been dropped, subject to abuse from myself and disgruntled punters had at least one ceiling fall on it, been covered in sweat and beer and had very little care other than a wipe down with a damp cloth. So after all this what’s it like? Well it still plays great the tuners were replaced with Fenders about 6 years ago as were the volume and tone knobs, the bridge looks a little rough; but she sounds as bright and as beautiful as she did when I picked her out 37 years ago. I’d have little hesitation recommending an Ibanez given my experience.

[Brian T. Williams]

As usual, helpful, informative, unbiased advice..........thats why I posted this question.

I had the option of returning the Ibanez 12 string to the dealers for a refund and an "upgrade" to one of the other two.

I don't particularly like Rickenbackers, I've heard a few reports of neck twisting problems and I dislike the way the pick ups and neck joint and (consequently) strings sit high on the body. The neck is also too narrow for my liking.

The Gibson seemed the best alternative but I was dissuaded by the trapeze tailpiece and the astronomical price, absolutely not worth that much more dosh compared to the Ibanez.

So.......I have decided to stick with the Ibanez, amazing value for money; finish, sound and playability are superb. I am going to spend around $120 on a set of Gotoh Delta 510 mini tuners and should then end up with a truly superb guitar and with a few saved extra $$$ in my back pocket!!

Thanks for all your advice, it DID help me to this decision!!

Brian.