Takamine bridge beyond repair?

[Stacey]

I snagged this old 1974 F-340 takamine hoping to save it from the trash. I am not sure if it is beyond saving, looks like someone was planning a bridge replacement and gave up. My question is, is it beyond saving? Can I graft a new piece in or fill it and add a new bridge? There isn't a luthier in my area so it would be a home job.

[Andrew]

Its not beyond saving, but youll have consider your skill level and how much time and effort the guitar is worth.

[Stacey]

Time and effort art things I have ;) I am not sure what process I need to do. Is there a thread on this type of repair? If so could you link it? I won't know if I can do it unless I know what needs to be done.

[Kerry Krishna]

Stacey, we need Frank Ford to pop in here and link us, as I do think that there is a photoessay that is on the FRETS site... 

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Stacey.

Could you give us a description of your repair skill level and/or experience. What kind of repairs have you done so far? It'll assist us in preparing an appropriate reply.

Please understand that the skill required to effect this repair [correctly...as we don't dabble in 'guerrilla' guitar repair] is pretty advanced stuff. It's not a beginner or novice project, but, if you got it cheap, it's a good one to learn on.

Also, how's the neck angle, frets, bracing, the 'humidity' condition, etc? We'll need all that info for a complete work-up:)

Thanks much,

Paul

[Kerry Krishna]

 Paul, thanks for popping in here! Stacey, this is about to get kinda complicated, so do read through all that gets posted here before you actually attempt the repair OK?

 I just spent 15 mins going through all Franks FRETS site looking for the bridge top wood replacement photoessay that I was convinced was there. I can't find it.... 

Stacey you are in good hands here if you listen to Paul, and I will see if I can send a message to young Frank so he can pop in... 

[Stacey]

No worries, I'm not touching it until I have it all worked out! I am glad I found this group iny search for a solution, because there is some crazy advice just going through Google and I really want to do this the correct way.

[Stacey]

It was a freebie guitar. I have no experience at all repairing guitars, I play and string them and that is about it. I have helped to build and renovate houses and have done a lot of home repair (which also requires wood work and some delicate jobs as well) so I think that if I know what needs to be done I can do it. I'll never know unless I give it a shot. I would like to do it the right way, I don't like shotty quick fixes and I just hate to see a good guitar die. Thanks for the help :)

[Paul Verticchio]

Stacey.

The absolute best advice I or anyone else can give you is to get Dan Erlewine's Guitar Repair Book (3rd Ed.). It's the bible of the trade. Once you have it, study it from cover to cover. Also check out all of Stewart MacDonald's online tutorials as well as Frank Ford's at Frets.Com. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html#Luthier.  It'll give you a good understanding of the complexities of guitar repair.

The endeavor you're about to undertake isn't just about replacing the bridge..and that in itself is a precision task. Repairing the substrate in itself is considered advanced work. Repairing a plywood top is even more difficult. BTW: in repair work, we work in tolerances of 1/128 of an inch so basic carpentry skills will likely be of no experience benefit. Cabinet making or furniture making is much more analogous to guitar repair & building.

I'm not trying to kill your desire to repair, I applaud it. However, a vast and specialized knowledge of how a guitar is constructed, works and is set up is vital BEFORE you touch the instrument for this particular repair.

Once you get the new bridge on, you will have to set up the instrument which includes making a saddle for the bridge. Other things you'll have to check is the condition of the bridgeplate and the neck angle. If the instrument needs to have the neck reset (a probability) replacing the bridge without having a properly set neck will be an exercise in futility.

You have MUCH to learn..MUCH....but you came to the right place.

Check out those sites and, if nothing else, you'll begin learning the nomenclature of repair work because we do speak a specialized trade language.

Have a great weekend :)

[Stacey]

As far as everything else goes it is in great shape inside and out although it is a bit dry. It looks like it was a well loved guitar before the bridge was removed.

[nathan clark]

We had a lengthy discussions about this topic a couple of years back:

http://fretsnet.ning.com/forum/topics/regluing-a-bridge

[Hesh Breakstone]

Hi Stacey and welcome to FRETS.NET.

Is this Tak beyond repair?  No, rarely is a guitar beyond repair it's simply a matter of how much effort, time, and money one may wish to expend on the project.  There is also the "opportunity cost" as well meaning that at times effort, time, and money may be better spent with a better outcome somewhere else.  Regardless here is a brief summary of what it's going to take to do this repair.

First as was pointed out it would be a good idea to do a detailed evaluation of the rest of the guitar looking for worn bridge plates, loose braces, a neck angle that won't work, fretwork, tuners, everything so as to assess all that this old guitar may need to sing again.  Having the straight scoop is important in terms of answering the question as to if the repair is worth doing.

The basic procedure for fixing a guitar with the bridge issues such as this one is:

1)  Remove all remnants of the old bridge, clean up the bridge patch of old glue, repair the bridge patch if wood is missing, and prepare a clean, freshly scraped top surface for gluing the new bridge.

Tools that may be required could be a chisel (very sharp, the sharper the better, I like 5/8th" chisels for cleaning up bridge patches.  Some folks use a router or Dremel in a a router base to clean up the bridge patch.

2) Make a new bridge.  The replacement bridge can be crafted from the same material as the original, ebony or rosewood.  You'll need the wood, a drill or drill press, a 3/16" brad point drill bit, a band saw or hand saws to cut the bridge shape, and a belt sander to shape the wings (can't remember what a Tak wing looks like so this one may not be needed).

You will not only have to make the bridge but also slot the bridge for the saddle.  This means that you need some understanding of how scale length is calculated and you will need some understanding of compensation, saddle height, break angles, fitting bridge pins, etc.

Some of the tools needed here are pin reamers, files for making a saddle out of bone (oh yeah some bone from the butcher too...), measuring tools, something to route the slot with (jig...) etc.

Once the bridge is made and the bridge patch is cleaned up it's time to glue the new bridge on.

3)  For this operation you will need glue, Titebond original will work but it's not idea in that it has a tendency to cold creep.  Hot Hide Glue, the real stuff not the bottled Rasta Imposta from Franklin.  You will need special clamps, bridge caul, bridge plate caul, and understanding of various methods for fitting a a bridge on a radiused top, the skill needed to use HHG if you go that route, waxed paper for the caul in the box, the ability to do dry runs and then work quickly.

It's an involved procedure and the difference between simply smashing a bridge back on and correct removal, preparation, and gluing on the replacement is vastly different.

Also this bridge failed in a rather dramatic manner.  I would be keen to really check out the rest of the guitar for possible damage and prior abuse as well.

Anyway it can be done, many of us do it every day... but it's not easy, requires some learning, special tools are also required if one has very little or no tools, glues, etc.

In my business we often see folks who want to save an old guitar and it's sad for us and them when we have to tell them that often the reason that an instrument went with out being repaired is that it was not worth fixing.  I can't tell you how many times ebay comes up where someone "won" "such a deal" only to find out that they will never recoup the money they spent or get the instrument playing well again.

This is not always the case of course and it's likely that this Tak can be repaired.  The real question is though, once you fully understanding that you may need a plethora of tools, materials, glues, the associated costs, perhaps reading material too, time, etc. is this one worth fixing?  That's a personal decision of course and for you and only you to decide.

Since we can't see the rest of the instrument if at all possible it might be prudent to get an estimate from a pro so that at least any unknown issues may come to light before you decide to proceed or not.

If you have any interest in learning Lutherie that goes beyond this guitar that is something that we can help with a great deal as well.

Good luck.

[Stacey]

So. The book is on the way. Sounds like I will have a bit of learning to do and meanwhile I will get some more pictures. I got ahold of the guy the guitar belonged to. He said the bridge was starting to lift so he took it off with heat and a putty knife and some of the wood lifted and he just glued it back down and reglued the bridge and then SURPRISE! it came off. This was a literal face palm moment for me. He did have the bridge and pins and gave them to me, the bridge is a not so lovely shade of slightly scorched.