Keeping small containers of paint fresh?

[Mike Kolb]

Thought I'd toss this question out for the troops....  I'm forever mixing small amounts of tinted lacquer for touch-ups. Various shades of mahogany, vintage amber, and the list goes on.

After mixing-up something appropriate and using it, I'll dab a bit on a piece of white tape and affix it to the top of a supposedly sealed small jar for future use... and there's the rub. By the time I need that particular shade again, nine times out of ten, it's hardened and useless. 

Anyone got some got good tips for keeping small am'ts of lacquer fresh (or at least usable)?  While we're at it, how about the various glues?... do you refrigerate any? I'd like to hear your thoughts....

[Chris Rochow]

Mike , look at these people;

http://www.sunburstbottle.com/site/index.html

 

 

 

[Mike Kolb]

Yes, they've got every jar and bottle imaginable... my dilemma is not so much obtaining the containers (I've got scads) but how best to keep the product fresh.

A lot of jar lids have seals that deteriorate when lacquer is used. I've thought of "potting" sealed jars in wax (much like a pickup would be potted) but am a lil' concerned about what the Fire Marshall would say about playing with lacquer and hot wax together!

But that's a good resource, Chris. I'll keep it handy. Maybe it's worth dropping them an e-mail and see of they'd have any suggestions specific to lacquer.  To be continued...  

 

[Greg Mirken]

I used to do the same thing. What I eventually realized was that I pretty much never used exactly the same color again; I invariably had to tweak it for the next job. So eventually I started keeping a custom color of lacquer or stain only until the instrument was finished and delivered. Then I tossed it.

The only exception is the jar of lacquer that sits on a sunny window ledge aging. As I use it I top it up with fresh lacquer.

[Chris Rochow]

Mike, Any time I want to prevent any 'air leaks' into a bottle/can... I first place a piece of wax paper over the mouth and then put on the lid. Done it for years...saw in Popular Mechanics.

[Phil Keener]

Mike-

You need to get a layer of CO2 over the paint by filling the void in the top of the container with CO2.

It can be as simple as exhaling into the container before you seal the top. I've got an old bottle of CO2 that was for a beer tap and dispensing system. I've used it for at least 10 years and it's still half full. I'll do some research for you and offer up  a few more sources for the gas. I'm not saying this will always work, but, most of my leftover mixes stay in good shape for a long time. I'll check a couple of my older lacquer mixes to see what shape they are in.

Best Regards,

Phil 

[Phil Keener]

 

I've completed my research. Out of three left-over lacquer mixes I had, two were just fine after adding solvent to the witness line on the side of the bottle and putting it in my shaker for a few minutes. The third bottle was completely dry. I put that bottle under high vacuum to remove all solvent and moisture. After two days I carefully reconstituted the solids that had been left in the bottle with solvent, some BB's, and the shaker. The mixture worked great in my airbrush.

Hmm.....

The next step is to repeat the cycle on the other two leftover bottles. We'll see what happens and if the tint stays fast. It is important to have the vertical label on the side of the container with a color sample and a witness mark on the side to show the level of the fluid when it was sealed and put away.

I will continue to use the CO2 in the bottles after my drying process to keep the moisture out. It will also go into my leftover or opened O2 curing compounds.

A blanket of CO2 over almost any open product should retard moisture intrusion.

Actually, I'm might give one of my pesky resident squirrels a paint job, or just throw out the leftover mixes.

It will be much less complicated.......

Regards to all,

Phil

[Kerry Krishna]

Mike, there are several threads I have read that said that the poster used inert gas that comes from a spray bottle. It is made for thew wine industry, and is for sale at most wine stores here in Canada. To fully prepare to use it though, I would go to maybe an art supply house and get a collection of tiny bottles with rubberized undersides of the lid. Baby food bottles also work quite well, but with all of them, you have to over tighten to get a good seal. I hope this helps.

[Paul Verticchio]

http://www.bloxygen.com/

 

[Mark A. Kane]

From the Bloxygen site...

 

"Bloxygen will NOT HELP problems with WATER-BASED FINISHES or LACQUER. These products don't cure via oxygen absorption."

[Mike Kolb]

Thanks for all the good tips!  Kerry, what you mentioned about the inert gas for wine rings a bell. I live in a great pinot noir producing area so I'll keep my eyes open. And I appreciate Phil's scientific approach to this!

In the meantime, I've prepared an experiment. I mixed-up (on purpose) way too much toned lacquer touchup for a recent neck reset job.  The lacquer went into five similar separate small sealed jars with lids. 

One was sealed with nothing but standard lid-torque; a second with waxed paper under the lid; a third with the threads and underside of the lid painted with the wet lacquer before closing; a fourth was simply closed and turned-upside down and the fifth was dipped in hot wax (just the lid and first 1/2" of the bottle).

To be continued in about, oh, maybe 6 months or a year. I'll post the results. 

Another local fellow mentioned that perhaps, instead of Bloxygen, I could try regular propane gas from a cylinder. Any thoughts on that?  Must admit, however, that any sentence including the words "propane" and "lacquer" makes me nervous.

[Phil Keener]

 

Can I have all your tools after you try the propane?

I looked at the MSDS for Bloxygen. It consists of argon and more argon which is put into a

small, handy-dandy container. I'm going to start using Argon instead of CO2 (which is bit reactive).

Very good experiment you have in-process. Please keep us informed of the results.

Best Regards,

Phil

[Jeff Highland]

As Mark Kane above said, Lacquer does not cure through oxygen absorbtion..

There is no point  in putting inert gas above it.

Lacquer hardens because the solvent evaporates.

So you need a good seal to the jar and not too much free volume in the container (small jar)