guitar action, how low is too low?

[Arthur Sweeney]

Hi, I just got my guitar back from the guitar shop. I had the action lowered.

The guitar is an acoustic Martin D-15 Custom with a bone saddle. He got the action

nice and low, and the guitar sounded great, until I strummed hard that is. Then the

frets started buzzing like a beehive. When I fingerpicked, or strummed softly, no buzzing,

but when I strummed hard, like a like to do alot, buzzing all over. So, I had to take it back,

and get a thin bone shim installed, which raised the action up so that it does not buzz anymore,

even with hard strumming. But now the guitar is not as easy to play. So, basically, I cannot have

my cake and eat it too it seems, as the saying goes. So, my question is, how does one really determine how low the action can go on a guitar? Does it need to match the style of the guitarist?

Is there a one-size-fits-all action height, that is just right for most people? Why can't I have it low, and play any way I want? Or am I missing something here, and there are other factors in play?

Should I just remove the shim, and give-up hard strumming?  Any advice?? Thank you very much.

 

[Mark McLean]

"So, basically, I cannot have my cake and eat it too it seems, as the saying goes............Does it need to match the style of the guitarist?". 

Arthur, you said it yourself right there.  You can't have it both ways.  A guitar set up for a fingerstyle player is going to have different action from one customized for a country-strummer, or a bluegrass flatpicker.  You need to explain to your spouse and your bank manager that this is the reason why you need to own a number of high quality guitars.

Do check the neck relief also, to make sure that some of the fret buzz is not from a back-bowed neck.  And check the action at the nut in case it is too low there - but the guy at the shop should have attended to that as part of the set-up job.  Frank's pages at Frets.com tell you how to do these things if you need some tips.

Mark

[Ron Frazier]

 I find that I need to dress the finger board flat with no releif .  then use medum strings.

You can hammer the strings harder and not buss.  Of course the nut & saddle needs to be set.

Tune to pitch. If the strings are bussing adjust the neck relefe whitch will raise the strings some.

I find that when they play for me they will not play as hard as they will be at another setting and they want

the action verry low. Then they will come back and tell me that the strings buzz so I have learned to set where 

I think it needs to be and not where they want it. IT is easier to lower it again than raise it later.

 

Ron

 

[William F.Eden]

 Arthur you can sometimes have it low and still play some what hard if you just lower the frets from the 12th fret on towards the hole that is the way the Elc.guitars around here are done.        [ just a thought]  Bill...............

[Hesh Breakstone]

Everyone seemingly wants the lowest action that they can get but often do not realize that low action and the ability to get low with the action with no buzzing or minor buzzing is a function of many things.  Some of these things have everything to do with the player's style and other things are a function of the neck, fret dress condition, relief as mentioned, and even string gauge.  Lighter gauge strings may lash out further meaning that they may require more fret clearance.

 

Anyway I always ask my clients to play me a tune when they drop off their guitars IF what they are having done requires that I lower the action.  It gives me a view of how heavy handed they may or may not be and helps me decide how much to take the action back up once I determine where the guitar starts to buzz.  Asking your clients to play for you is also expressing interest in them as players which most will appreciate.  Lastly too you will get a feel for the music style too so if you have someone do Townsend's windmills you may get some advance notice and can plan accordingly...

[Ned Knepp]

I play with a small group at my church and used to take an extra guitar in case anyone "dropped in ". I stopped doing this when I loaned a martin I own to a friend and got it back a hour later with an area the size of my open hand below the pick guard where the finish has been scraped off by his aggressive playing "style".

Lesson learned; make sure you know how the person plays BEFORE you loan them a guitar.

 I have 4 guitars in my collection that are intentionally set up for different styles of playing. My favorite will just about do everything I want but isn't the lightest touch of the set and will still buzz when pushed hard.  The least expensive of the set is a late '50s Kay arch top that I bought as a 50 dollar junker which is actually the easiest to bar but not too comfortable for finger style. The point is that it's not necessary to have a lot of very expensive guitars to get what you want IF you are careful about what you get and are willing to understand that it fill a role that is narrower than a "generic" player.  Has anyone looked at the quality of the famed "leadbelly" Stella 12 string guitars?  

[John]

There are 2 lawyers that would be good to have on your side as a guitar tech a Murphys Lawyer and a Physics Lawyer sadly we have to work within the laws of Physics when we set up guitars.That being said newer guitars seem to be set at a little steeper angle than they used to. I say that because a straighter neck and a taller saddle works a lot more often than it used too.

Often younger or inexperienced techs will introduce more relief and lower the saddle when the exact opposite is the solution.