Glue disappeared in a neck joint of a 100 year guitar?

[MJS]

I sold an old parlor guitar and loosened the strings before packing it into a box to ship. Upon receipt, the buyer said that the neck was loose and with the exception of a single drop of glue, wasn't even glued to the body of the guitar.  The guitar was built around 1900 by George Bauer and I had it tuned to pitch or just below pitch for years never had a problem with the neck coming off.  Could the glue have evaporated over the years and the knocking about during shipment without any tension on the neck caused the neck to separate from the body?  Shouldn't there still be evidence of glue on the tenon/mortise, even if it's evaporated?  Was Bauer so confident that his joint fit so well that he didn't even use glue in the neck joint?

Thanks!

[Mark Pollock]

The glue that was there was hide glue, very lightly applied, and only on the cheeks of the tenons. Some folks expect to see giant globs of yellow glue all over the place, but it was probably applied rather conservatively.

You also don't have a picture to see how the joint came apart - it's not unlikely that the dovetail fractured, leaving a rough-looking joint that appears to be only wood. Pictures would be really helpful for you and for commentary here.

So, what are you going to do about it?

[MJS]

Thanks for the reply.  I don't have a picture and the buyer isn't very helpful.  He simply wants a partial refund.

What could have caused the hide glue to fail?  Could the reduction in tension have caused it?  Thanks.

[Eric Steven Johansen]

Heat with moisture or impact shock are the only things I know of to break the joint loose. What is puzzling to me is what happened to the glue holding the fretboard extension to the top? Get some pictures or do not refund any money.

[Kerry Krishna]

MJS, I really do smell a scam here. Tell him no partial refund, just pack the guitar up and send it back. I am almost willing to bet that there is no damage whatsoever.  I have heard of scams like this on Ebay many times. The dude may just be trying to supplement his income by getting you to knock the price down.   

[Thomas James]

I'm with Kerry on this. I never give partial refunds or discounts. Total scam.

[scott gannon]

Ditto with Kerry and Thomas.

[Ned Knepp]

I'm working on a guitar that is about this old right now. It is not possible that you had the instrument strung to playing tension and it is as glue starved as your buyer indicates. I completely agree with the other posters here. It's his duty to provide proof of the damage. No shipping company would pay insurance without proof of the damage. 

[MJS]

Thanks Mark, Eric, Kerry, Thomas, Scott, and Ned.

I had told the buyer that I was willing to file a claim with the shipping company but I would need his help (i.e., pictures) to do so. He said it would be a waste of time since I packed the guitar so well. I want to be fair if I am at fault in any way but it seems like he is just trying to get a discount. The buyer seemed like a good person but money can do strange things to people...

On a side note, the buyer bought my guitar with the intention of restoring it.  If indeed the neck actually is loose, shouldn't he be happy, instead of angry, since heating up the neck to get it off the body tends to be a difficult task?  Also, he said the fretboard extension is still glued to the body but the next joint doesn't have glue (except for "one small drop"). If the glue evaporated from the neck joint, shouldn't the glue under the fretboard extension have evaporated long before since it is more exposed?

Again, I greatly appreciate your help and advice!

MJS

[Paul Verticchio]

To say it another way MJS:  Don't beat yourself up over this.

You held-up your end of the transaction.  If he bought it for a restoration project, then I agree: the condition of the neck is to his benefit. 

All "not-in-person" transactions should include a "SOLD AS-IS" statement to avoid scenarios exactly like this.

Again, don't blame yourself.

Have a good one.

[MJS]

Thanks again!

[Mark Pollock]

Saying there is no glue in the joint while the fingerboard is still attached is like checking the oil of a car without using the dipstick. Or lifting the hood. Whatever - at least he is not making any stupid threats. And hopefully I am not jinxing the situation.

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi MJS.

I too smell something fishy.

I'm only chiming in to keep you on track.  The "how & why" the supposed damage occurred is not the issue.

If it were me & I insured the shipping carton, I'd tell him to deal with the insurance company.  Period.  This is an insurance issue, not a "purchase based condition" issue.

Also, the guitar is over 100 years old.  That's why there is shipping insurance.

Although we're not holding our collective breath, IF the buyer provides you with photos; please share them with us?

If he's still unhappy with your resolution of the matter, refer him to George Bauer to explain the construction details(; Ha!

The VERY BEST of luck to you (-: