Repairing 50 year old Lacquer

[Scott Pike]

I have a project in my shop refretting and replacing the neck binding on a 61 les paul there is loads of chipping along the neck where the binding must have come lose and was glued back on I got the binding off with minimal chipping. I was thinking of color matching lacquer and drop filling. but wanted to put it out there. What are the forums thoughts?

Soundz915

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Scott.

I'm not aware of your skill level so I offer this link to address the several steps required replace the binding. http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0131.html  [I inferred, by the question itself, that your experience may be limited.]

It's most advisable to install new binding if the old binding is in the very poor shape you describe.

If you notice at the end of the article, Dan sends the guitar to the spray booth to re-shoot the neck & binding.  It's the only way to do it right, especially with a collectible vintage instrument.

This isn't Repair 101 stuff given the age & model of the instrument.  A '61 LP (regardless if it's a Special or a Standard) is worth quite a bit of $$$ so I'd suggest taking it to someone familiar with vintage restorations for "eyes on" advice.  The procedure you've already performed may have devalued the instrument by a thousand $$$ or so, depending on its overall condition.

No matter how you proceed, may you have the best of luck.

Paul (-:

[Eric Steven Johansen]

Hey Scott, If you are replacing the binding with new, which it sounds to me like you are, then drop filling with colored lacquer is the best way to go. I always hit the new binding with some amber lacquer as well and sand back to the white at the top edge to add some aging. Are you running the binding through to the fret crowns as original? Recommended if you wish to retain value. Best of luck.

[Scott Pike]

The Les Paul belongs to a professional player and wants it playable. The frets were only .023 in height really a true fretless wonder and very hard for him to play. After talking about the value of the Les Paul and by disturbing the original condition would could or effect to value of the instrument he told me that he would much rather play it then making it a wall hanger. I am a Grad of the Red Wing MN Southeast Tech Guitar Building and Repair program and and audio engineer of 35 years and do have an overwhelming respect for vintage stringed instruments. The reason I I'm putting this out to the forum is to get any feed back on repair techniques. As good as we all my think we are as repairers there is always room for improvement. I am going to do a gibson style refret on the Les Paul frets filed flat to the fret board shaping the binding around the fret wire.Thanks for all the feed back so far hope to here more from the forum maybe even a few of the moderators I am sure a few have done this before.  

Here are some shots of the Les Paul.

Regards

Scott Pike

[Scott Pike]

some full shots of the guitar

[Joshua Levin-Epstein]

There is a school of thought that says the repairs should be visible so as not to be mistaken for original (bad or good). Those guitars were a mess from the day they left the factory though they did look cool. One problem is the way the factory bound the guitar, with the binding itself tapering in. This resulted in less playing area on the frets.  As you are replacing the binding, I would try to have it taper out, making the fingerboard "wider", and do the nibs business. The difference in binding style will be enough to tell people Gibson didn't do it and will make the guitar that much more playable. I would also put decent sized frets on it. The next guy can flatten them if they want to repeat Gibson's mistake.

 

Just my opinion,

 

Joshua

[Ned Knepp]

OK, some of you know that I'm really just starting to pay attention to electric instruments so I'm going to thrown down a whole lot of ignorance here and say that this doesn't look like a "Les Paul" to me. I see the name written script in a couple of places but the body doesn't look anything like what I though a LP body shape looked like. It's not my intention of taking over the thread but could anyone explain to me what I'm missing?

[Thomas James]

This was the new Les Paul design in 1961. It became the 'SG' at Les Paul's request later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_SG

[Ned Knepp]

Thanks Thomas. That explains why I though it was an SG. I just haven't studied the history of various Electric models and got confused. 

[Paul Verticchio]

But Ned, it IS a Les Paul AND an SG.  If you're, as you say, "just starting to pay attention to electric instruments", get ready for a thrill ride when it comes to accurate identification. 

A Fender Telecaster, for example, has been released in over 30 different versions (conservative estimate for example only) since its birth.  Your best all-around guides for electric info are Gruhn's Guide and the VG Annual price guide.

Scott, thank you for your credentials.  And: "he told me that he would much rather play it then making it a wall hanger.".  I'm a fan of that guy already (:

My only other comment: I'm with Joshua on the binding plan.  As a pro player myself (45+ years), running the frets over the binding (sans nibs) is a MAJOR improvement in comfort for the player.  Plus, you'll save yourself HOURS of work....and it will allow a bit wider string spread at the nut as the 'too narrow' factory spread a common from players (myself included) complaint about the Great Horned LP a/k/a---SG's.

Good luck and please post some "after" pictures?

P(-:

[Christian Johnson]

FYI at a Guild of Amer luthiers convention some years ago, Dan Erlewine told me he sands off the "nibs".

[LARRY KLOSE]

I play a mandolin with "Gibson Style" binding, sloped up to the fret ends.  It hasn't had a refret yet in the 12 years I've had it but over that time several of the binding ramps have disappeared on both sides, mainly where I play a lot.  All that is needed is to pull a string over the ramp a few times and it'll pop those little thangs right off.  Then it may be easy to catch the string on the flat fret end when it happens again, at least on the E strings.  Fortunately, this instrument, by the late Taku Sakashta (we miss you, Taku!) has the fret ends gently radiused behind the ramps so a catch is less likely with no sharp edges.  When I finally do refret, it'll be with conventional fret ends over-hanging the binding.  Taku was looking to channel a Loar as much as possible with this one but it's not, so why put up with the inconveniences?

Larry

[Scott Pike]

Thanks for all the replays. The owner want to keep the Gibson look so I will be filling and scraping.

The job will be a bit different then Gibson's way. After the binding was applied at the factory the neck was sprayed along with the binding I will be masking off the binding (also leaving it square only breaking the edge.) and amber tinting to match the headstock binding. Is there anyone here that has actually done one of these?

More to come 

Scott