Loose binding at waist

[harrison phipps]

The binding has shrunk and pulled loose at the waist on this old Epiphone archtop. I have heard rumors about someone that has a method of streching the brittle binding enough to get it back to where it was and have new glue hold it there. Have you heard about this or know the method?

[Paul Breen]

I would cut the binding under the pick guard bracket and just glue it down, the bracket will hide the void. I don't think you'll get enough stretch with heat and could possibly make it worse trying.

[Hesh Breakstone]

What we do that works very well for us is to very gently heat the unglued area of the binding with a variable temp heat gun such as the Mikita that has been calibrated and tested to not heat above the "bubble the finish" temp.  Once we find this safe temp for our gun we mark it on the dial with a silver hash mark.

So you heat the binding, gently and carefully all the while working it with fingers and thumbs and you will see and feel it reexpand back to the original size where as it can then be glued in place with an appropriate glue for the binding.  This works well on nitrocellulose bindings that would be found, depending on the date of build, on old Epiphones.  Once the binding is flexible enough and resized glue, tape in place, and Bob's your uncle - mine too.... ;)

Hope this helps, Harrison.

[Greg Mirken]

Harrison, I have stretched and reglued shrunken binding many, many times, as have all the professionals on this board, I'm sure. Paul is right in that it would be hard to get enough stretch out of a short segment. What I would do is loosen the binding another 6 to 8 inches on both sides of the waist. Heat the loose binding (for this I usually use a heat lamp so I can move closer or further as needed). Putting tape on that checked finish is inviting disaster as chunks of lacquer will pull up. I brush accelerator in the channel first, and use thin CA wicked in as I hold the binding in place with a pencil eraser. Hold it tight for a few seconds and move on to the next segment, working an inch or less at a time.

It's tedious but preferred to cutting the binding.

[LARRY KLOSE]

I have used CA to repair loose binding and have found it hard to handle without squeeze out or other damage to the adjacent finish if I attach the binding fast enough to form a good bond.  LMI has a contact binding cement with which I've had much better results, mainly because the long open time allows careful application before it's necessary to re-attach the binding.  I really like working with this stuff as compared to the ACC option.  Are there any opinions whether the LMI product would work in this heated environment?

Or, maybe I'm using the wrong applicator for the CA... .

Larry

[Greg Mirken]

I can't have squeeze-out because I hold the binding tight to the channel as I let a drop of CA wick in between the plastic and the channel. The channel has already been primed with accelerator (just a wipe let dry to the touch) so the glue kicks off instantly and I can move to the next little section. Almost no clean-up at all.

[LARRY KLOSE]

What are you using as an applicator for the CA?  A pipette?

Larry

[Greg Mirken]

I let a drop hang from the end of a scribe.

[David Collins]

The magic number is 81.

We use heat, very carefully controlled. We have a couple of Makita HG1100 heat guns which have very good temperature controls. With a reducer nozzle we can adjust the temperature to read 81-82C at 1/2" from the tip on low speed, which has proven to stay very consistent.

At lower temps the binding will expand when heated and can be pushed back in to position, but often will shrink back as it cools and cause some terrible headaches when you're trying to glue after removing the heat. At that range around 81-82c however, the binding will become truly soft and malleable, so that it can be stretched and reshaped permanently, and will not shrink back as it cools.

There are of course some risks, and a learning curve to get the feel for it. The biggest risk is that in testing I've done the finish will start to discolor and bubble by the time you hit 84C, and shortly after that the binding will start to smolder and go up in flames. These Makitas dialed in just right though, and you can hover in one spot indefinitely without causing any such damage.

The next challenge is heating and stretching strategically and consistently. If one little spot reaches critical temp but the surrounding region has not when you start to stretch it, that one little hot spot will pull thin like taffy. Complete even heating is key, as is keeping a keen eye on where it's moving so you can adjust your pressure to avoid inconsistent stretching (and remember that it's soft, so don't mash it up with your fingers). Also while the binding will soften and stretch, the finish on the binding typically will not, meaning that you'll often be left with a bit more checking in the stretched areas than the surrounding finish.

The beauty of achieving true soft malleability is that you can stretch it, let it cool, and glue it together with no stress on the joint and without having to rush while the binding's still hot. You can do it without a fancy heat gun as well, but the learning curve may be a bit longer, as it can take a fair bit of experience to learn to read when the temperature is just right and before it gets hot enough to damage anything. Even with a good heat gun it still deserves some practice on some old junkers before trying it on a real guitar, but at least once you get it dialed in you can pretty much eliminate the risk of overheating anything to the point of damage.

[Robbie Collins]

FYI: the Makita HG1100 is discontinued and the Makita replacement (HG551V) is $95 on Amazon and its lower temperature limit is 180ºF (82.2ºC).  The DEWALT D26950 is $59 on Amazon and its lower limit is 120ºF (48.9ºC). 

[Donald A. Fortune]

I had a condition like this and used a hair dryer to soften up the binding and then I just used binding cement to fasten it in place..  just my 2 cents-----

peace,Donald

 

[Kerry Krishna]

Donald and I are in the same small boat. I have also done this recently on an acoustic with a hair drier. It was not easy to manage all the variables that young David talks about. It DID work though...