Neck steaming temperature?

[Andrew]

Sorry if this topic has come up already. With the search function down I couldn't find what I was after.

Anyway Im wondering what the temperature of steam should be coming out of the needle, roughly. I currently have a pressure cooker on a hotplate, and with the plate at max and the cooker all warmed up, I can hold the needle pretty much against my hand without much discomfort, and it sputters pretty frequently, although the water in the pot boils vigorously and there are no pressure leaks. Do i need to get more heat under the pressure cooker? Anything else I can do? If the pressure cooker's not a good route its no loss, i got it for 2$. Maybe try the steam cleaner like in another current thread? Id like as much control over the volume and temperature of the steam as possible.

[Thomas James]

My understanding is that is starts at 212F Boiling Point and rises under pressure.

[Hesh Breakstone]

We use an old converted expresso maker and let it heat up until we have a goodly amount of steam coming out the probe. Steam is steam unless, of course... one has access to a nuclear reactor.... ;)  Or what I am trying to say is that what's more important than the temp of the steam is the presence of the steam.  Steam is steam pretty much for our purposes and lots of it with a continuous stream is the goal.

I know some folks can make a pressure cooker work but dragging that GE 6 burner, gourmet cook top to one's work bench has to suck...;)

[Andrew]

Ive been keeping my eye out for an espresso maker that i could convert without messing around too much, but I have this and it does produce a reasonable volume of steam. Just thought Id put this out there before i spent much time tinkering with things or spending money. Does the sputtering make a difference really? Ive read that some prefer a 'dry' steam (if there is such a thing) and presumably a higher temperature would mean the steam would take longer to condense back to water. Maybe insulate the hose so the steam wont cool off on the way to the needle so much?

[Thomas James]

I tooled around Google while doing some head scratching research.  What I've read is that higher heat steam has less moisture ~ 500F, but as Hesh mentioned it requires a serious machine to do that. The home cleaners claim 220 to 240-ish and have some decent pressure. It will shoot about ten-twelve foot stream/cloud at full throttle. Andrew, you mentioned having little discomfort on your hand. Those temps would scald you instantly. The espresso thing does works great. I see them in second hand shops.

Two sources of overkill info that I saved:

http://www.armstronginternational.com/armstrong-steam-university-fr...

http://www.jgbhose.com/technical-reference-literature/steam-tempera...

[Ned Knepp]

Insulating the tubing should help some. I think if you can hold the the needle in your bare hand you might not be getting enough of the heat to your joint.

 I once met a guy that said he used hot water to get his neck joint apart. I don't think I would want to mess with thatjoint after he finished BUT the point is that steam is a way to introduce the two things that tend to loosen the glue joint in a way that,hopefully, keeps either from being too destructive. With enough heat you might not need moisture but then again with enough heat you won't need a neck reset so much as a new guitar.  I think the idea is to get as much pure steam, sans sputter, as you can into the joint so you can maximizes heat without burning things and control moisture to not get things completely soaked. In my limited experience, more steam and less sputter is better.

[Robbie Collins]

If I'm not mistaken, Don Teeter suggested using hot water.

[harrison phipps]

Ned has a good point, better insulation is needed on the steam supply tube.  The water that is sputtering out probably is steam that has condensed due to cooling. A shorert supply hose may help also.  I use the espresso machine and a rubber hose with small diameter metal tube, I let it blow steam till there is no sputtering and it works great.

[Mark A. Kane]

My rig is a hot plate and a pressure cooker with a short (18") hose. I purchased some of that corrugated plastic hose dressing they sell at auto parts stores for $3 and used it to insulate the hose. I can handle the hose without a problem. I used to go great guns with as much steam as I could generate, but then I spent a few days at the Martin factory several years ago and watched the pros extract necks. They used the same rig as me, but kept the steam output lower than I was used to. It was more effective, with less of a watery mess. I've since happily ratcheted the heat back. It keeps the drama to a minimum.

[Andrew]

Interesting. Ill start by insulating the hose and see what happens with the sputtering, then maybe try a shorter one. Ive been humming and hawing over putting a valve in the hose to control volume/pressure. Any need for that really? Or would the valve be better directly on the pot?

[Paul Breen]

Here's a shot of my rig. Stewmac needle/hose covered with regular pipe insulation and the hand piece covered with layers of leather. I got the flask from my daughter-in-law who works in a lab. House insulation is packed around the flask to help keep things hot at the business end. The box I made for it is clamped down, I don't want to have to think about being careful not to break it in the middle of a neck removal.

I have a cappuccino maker that I used before making this rig, the pressure cooker does not dump as much water and works better. I bought the vintage pressure cooker on Ebay and was also able to get the replacement seal kit for it. I think I gave around $25 for it, shipped.

[Andrew]

Nice. Did you cut the stew mac hose in two for that, or get another piece to go from the cooker to the flask?

[Paul Breen]

Nope, I added another length that I got from a local hardware store.