Martin 00015 headstock Nitro reaction to rubber feet on clip-on tuner

[Steven D. Wilson]

I guess I have heard of this happening before, but never seen it in person. The damage was caused by the Intellitouch PT40 clip-on tuner attachment feet. The Martin website says this guitar has an East Indian Rosewood headstock plate with nitrocellulose finish. Not sure what rubber-like material is on the tuner feet, but I am hoping to learn how to fix the headstock finish issues if possible. Pictures of the headstock and the tuner attached. Thanks! Steve

[Paul Verticchio]

Perhaps clip-on tuner "tattoos" like this are the 21st Century version of the ubiquitous 'cigarette burn' between the nut and low E string we find on all instruments which were gigged with until about 2003.

On all my guitar stands, I've zip-tied faux fur fabric over the exposed 'tubing' that they come with from the factory. Materials compatibility conflict eliminated for less than a dollar. Also one more reason why guitars should be in their cases....not on stands...for extended periods.

Also, a 3/4"x 3/4" piece of acid free archival paper between the clip and the headstock may eliminate this threat in the future.  An ounce of prevention...yadda, yadda.... :)

Although this truly does suck, you may just wish to leave it as a 'character mark'.  It's part of what makes it 'your' guitar.

Make sure you bring this issue to the tuner's manufacturer. Without our DIRECT feedback, they won't know how their products need to be improved. I wouldn't expect them to subsidize any repair resulting from it, but they should be aware this is happening.

Best of Luck, Steven :)

[Steven D. Wilson]

Thanks again everyone. The owner of this guitar has mobility issues. The guitar was left in the stand for ease of access, with the tuner clipped onto it. It would be too hard for her to take it in and out of the case. I will let the tuner manufacture know, as soon as I get better pictures. It would seem the repair would be pretty straightforward, except for it being over the Martin logo decal. Not sure I would know how to handle that. For now I am going to propose acceptance of the character mark!

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Steve.

I contacted Intelletouch and here’s the reply I received from Rusty Membreno [[e-mail]] :

“... please ask Steve Wilson to send me an email directly. I will help him out.

Fifteen or so years ago, when we started this clip –on tuner business, we did have comments in our manuals that warned not to leave the tuners attached for extended times – just to be safe.
In fact, we also solicited Martin’s help in testing our products with their finishes. We tested them on all of their finishes at the time and passed with flying colors. That was a long time ago.
It is possible something has changed – maybe their process or our rubber supplier’s process. But I am eager to try and find out. The rubber we specify for our products bust be inert to these finishes.

Just another note: In the past 17 years, we have shipped millions of tuners. The number of issues like Steve’s over this time frame probably still amounts to single digits. It’s very rare.
It certainly doesn’t mean that every Intellitouch PT40 is going to be an issue. If that was the case, we’d be out of business, so I feel it’s an isolated case. I plan to get Steve’s tuner back so I can test it myself along with others we have here in stock. If there is an issue. We’ll find out.”

Rusty and his crew seem to be really great folks so I’d definitely contact him.

Good luck in getting this resolved.

Paul

[Steven D. Wilson]

Wow! Thanks Paul. You have gone above and beyond the call of duty on this! I will contact Rusty and tell him the story. I also received another picture of the headstock that is a bit more high resolution. I will keep the forum posted of the results. As a point of curiosity, there is no finish damage on the back of the headstock where the other claw on the tuner pad would have been in contact.

[Kerry Krishna]

 Paul, one of the reason I love this Forum so much is posts like yours above. Man, you did some great research there. That reply from Rusty is a good start. I had thought of suggesting that someone get hold of Inteletouch and let them know immediately. 

 Also Paul Et Al', I buy real sheepskins and cut an inch wide strip off the exterior (all the way around the skin,)  cut the knap down to around a half inch thick,  and wrap all the plastic tubing/ contact points on ALL my guitar stands.

 

It could be that a new formula or recipe or process was done on the new rubber that Inteletouch knew nothing about. If that is the case, this Martin may be the first of hundreds of guitars that this happens too.

 Stephen, there is a FrankFord vid here somewhere of him stripping the front of a Martin headstock and redoong the   and re lacquering it. 

 Maybe someone with better search capabilities could figure out were?

  Also Stephen, I have been a BIG fan of Martin style headstocks with no logo at all for about 30 years. I think it is WAY cooler that seeing the logo, and adds SO MUCH to the Mojo/Mystery to the instrument. It would be a super simple job to get the machine heads off, and sand and seal the front with TruOil and leave it at that. 

 Why not let the owner know that this is an option?

[LARRY KLOSE]

Speaking of Frank and stands, several years ago I was in his shop, Gryphon, and saw a couple of sheeps' wool sleeves for stands, like a Hamilton.  They fit over the fork.  I have two Hamilton stands so I bought a couple and haven't had a problem since (I didn't have a problem before but I'd seen several mentions of the issue).  I keep my axes on stands.  Otherwise, I would play a lot less because I'd need to go to the closet, get out the case, open it, tune, play, return it to the case and put it back.  And this is for each of the 6 I currently use.  

Another thing to look out for: I have a varnish finished guitar and if I leave a tuner on the head the pressure will leave an impression (colorless) in the varnish.  Same on the neck with a capo.  This goes away over night but who knows if or when it will become permanent?

Larry

[Steven D. Wilson]

PROBLEM SOLVED - TUNER DID NOT CAUSE THE DAMAGE!

Well, this is a bit embarrassing! After contacting Rusty at Intellitouch, he asked me a few  questions about the size and shape of the staining. When I talked to the owner she remembered she also had a capo clipped to the headstock. The capo was a Jim Dunlop USA. I have attached a photo of the capo next to the damaged area. Below is my email to Rusty. Intellitouch = Class Act!

Hello Rusty,

Thank you so much for your quick reply.

The questions you had about the size and shape of the staining led me to another examination of the guitar and a chat with the owner.

It seems she also kept a capo clipped to the headstock.

Once I looked at the capo I realized its footprint matched exactly the staining on the headstock.

I have included a picture showing the capo next to the staining.

Also the compound on the part of the capo that would touch the strings is different than the compound on the bottom that would contact the neck.

That would explain the damage only on the top, it was from the rubber compound meant to dampen the strings.

She will still have to ponder the question of whether to refinish or not, but Intellitouch is off the hook!

Your kind response and interest in determining the problem speaks volumes for you and Intellitouch.

I truly appreciate your time in this matter.

I can only wish you made capos!

 

Best to you,

Steve Wilson

[Russell Vance]

Ok,

Nobody lost an eye over this one, Intelltouch comes up smelling of roses with great customer relations, Paul Verticchio did the heavy lifting and everyone worked through this vexing problem to a revealing conclusion.  That's a fine bit of cooperation so everyone gets to back-slap everyone here.

The fix is straightforward as far as a refinish goes - Martin have supplied decals to us in the past when give proof of origin of the instrument to be repaired.   The request was through an authorised dealer/repairer.  

The finish is a simple strip the front, grain fill a little, shoot some lightly tinted(medium brown) coats to match, place decal, shoot some light, clear dust coats to secure and seal the decal and then finish with some satin lacquer and  feathering the lacquer edge where the face meets the sides with some steel wool.   That's the basics, and I understand FF has also got a finish schedule mentioned elsewhere this thread which may be better.

R.

[Steven D. Wilson]

Just a bit embarrassed on my end for not suspecting something else sooner!

Rusty at Intellitouch is a stand up guy, and went in to detail explaining how they test their tuners on a variety of finishes. I would not hesitate to contact him with any future questions. I plan to look up any info on that capo and see if it comes with any warning, as it should I think.

Thanks, Russell for the steps to refinish. The lady is still deciding on how to proceed. I like the idea of the 21st century equivalent of the cigarette burn. Long live vice!

[LARRY KLOSE]

I've had several customer services issues with intellitouch over the years and they've all been good.  In one case the tuner (their first model) was in my back pocket and I sat on it with predictable results to the clamping mechanism.  I emailed requesting replacement parts and they sent me a replacement tuner.  I had some other issue of similar import with a later model and again, a replacement was in my hands in a couple of days when all I wanted was a part.

Another outfit with good customer service is Peterson, makers of several including the Strobo-clip.  I dropped that one on a concrete floor at a gig and part of the mounting hardware split.  I asked for parts, I got a replacement, no further questions asked.  I asked if they wanted the old one back.  They didn't, so after much ACC was applied, it is my stay-at-home tuner, but without any ability to rotate like originally intended.

Both good companies going beyond the call.

Larry

[Kerry Krishna]

 This has been a terrific thread notwithstanding the mix up in headstock decorations. What a great thing to find out! kudos to Rusty @ Inteletouch!

[LARRY KLOSE]

Just an additional thought:  I have a nitro finished (cheap) dresser that discolored when I put a magazine against the top under a stack of books.  Unfortunately, there was a vinyl covered book there before the magazine.  The color of the magazine transferred to the top, which was sticky from the vinyl (Frank has a warning about vinyl straps on his frets.com site for just this reason).  

Anyway, I took some naptha and buffed the area and the color lifted right off.  Letting the area stand for a couple of weeks took care of the soft finish.  Might be worth a try before refinishing that headstock.  It would only take a couple of minutes to find out.

OTOH, I left a zoom H2 recorder with the little tripod stand attached on the same dresser top for just a day or two.  The three little black dots from the rubber feet still are there.  Win some, lose some.

Larry