Stiff feel on acoustic-Why

[gordon]

I'm sure this is a question that's been asked before but I'm trying to figure this out.

I have a very well made hand-built acoustic guitar, the action is set low, 5/64, 3.5/64, little to no relief, light gauge strings.  You can get a note by barely touching it so I'm not referring to the fretting. It has an overall very stiff feel to the strings.  When I play for a while it really tires the hand.

BTW  I already tune down 1/2 step and it still feels stiff.  Any thoughts??

[Rob Mercure]

Does the neck profile match your hand size - especially your finger size?  One way to determine if this is a problem is to notice whether it feels stiffer in "classical" position - such as bar chording - or in the position that lets you drape your thumb over the sixth string (does this have an actual name?).  Also are the strings of a brand/type that you usually use?  The fully coated strings are noticable stiffer than uncoated or semi-coated.  Do the strings pass through the nut easily?  Loosening the strings and marking the nut slot where the string bears with a common graphite pencil will provide temporary lubrication. Lastly there are some fret profiles, possibly combined with a certain fret board radius, that just seem tiring to me.  When I worked at a music store doing electronics repairs during a break I'd stroll around the show room and try out various new guitars and some just seemed to be more like you described than others but I didn't have a chance to analyze why and eight years later I can't even remember which brands/models they were.

 

Rob

[gordon]

Rob. It feels stiff regardless of what I play.  Again, it frets easy it just feels stiff.  The strings are coated, Elixirs.  Have you found them to be stiffer than others.  They're not sticking in the slots at all.  The fretboard radius is 16 and the frets are a fairly large.  I can't remember the size but .093 or .095 sticks in my mind.

[Rob Mercure]

Yes I've found the Elixer incredibly stiff compared to a non-coated string.  While they work great for a glissando(i) and slide linearly along their lenght they resist any type bending force - it's difficult to stretch notes if that's part of  your style and on certain guitars just the normal bending of fretting can get tiresome.  I went to the 1/2 coated as soon as they hit the market and then found the D'dario equivalent much cheaper and a tad brighter (Elixers also always sound like still playable bur definitely "broken in" strings).  Finally though since I have a heavy right hand technique and was performing quite often and changing strings nightly I just went back to uncoated after about a 3-4 year run with coated strings.  Fully coated string IMHO are great for those who play their instrument infrequently and want to sonic signature to remain constant for literally years as the guitar only come out at holidays, etc.  For a more active musician who i actually putting significant wear on an instrument uncoated, or semi coated, sound better and develop the full acoustic potential of the axe.

 

Rob

[chris snyder]

Hay Gordon, whats the set up (nut with and sadle with, scale lenthg, thinkness of the neck at 1st and 10th?? fret, profile of the neck, radius of the fretboard, action at 12th fret, action at/of the nut, the relief of the neck, stringbrand and gauge,and preferred tuning) that you do feel most comfortable with?

 

[Howard Klepper]

Who built it?  What is the neck made of?  What is the top made of?  What is the bridge made of? How tall is the saddle?

 

Is the stiff feel all in the picking hand?  What gauge of strings are you using?  Have you used these strings on other guitars and had them feel different?

[gordon]

Rob. Thanks for the input.

Chris and Howard.  Here are the specs and measurements.

The guitar is a Charis GC built by Bill Wise.  EIR/Cedar Top with an ebony bridge. Howard. The stiffness is most noticeable in the fretting hand.  It's there in the right hand but that's not a bad thing.  I've used these strings on other guitars but I don't recall them feeling this stiff but there may have a difference.

 

Thanks for the input folks!

 

Nut width-1.75"/44.5mm

Saddle Width & Thickness-2.85 in/72mm x .11mm

Scale Length-25.6"

Neck Radius-16

Action-Low E 5/64, High E 3.5/64

Relief-close to flat

Saddle height from top to top of saddle-15/16"

Strings-Elixir Nano light gauge, standard tuning 1/2 down

[gordon]

Howard.  I forgot to say what the neck is made of.  It's a 5 piece.  Mahogany,maple,rosewood,maple,mahogany.

Very low profile.

[gordon]

Correction.

 

I posted the following-Saddle height from top to top of saddle-15/16" Now that would certainly account for a stiff feeling guitar wouldn't it?

I meant to type 15/32 but I measured again and to be more precise it would be 31/64" measured from the top to the bottom of the D string.

[Grahame Myers]

One thing you could check that hasn't been mentioned here: The action at the nut. When you press down the strings at the third fret, they should just barely clear the first fret, just a hair is enough, no more. If the gap is too much, this tends too make the action feel stiff, as you have to press too hard to stop chords, even normal triad chords on the first three frets. I've had customers in for a setup where they requested a 0.010" string set "otherwise my fingers hurt", and I convinced them to trust me, and after a proper setup, including setting the action at the bridge, and the nut, I could fit a 0.012" set for more power and a better tone, and the customer could play just as easily as before the setup with the 0.010" set, without sore fingers. A possible solution?

 

Grahame

[gordon]

Hi Grahame.  Thanks for the input but this guitar couldn't be set-up any better than it is. It's not the "action".

I think the easiest way to describe it is that it's the "feel".  My son and I were just playing and I let him play the guitar and he was shocked that he could chord easier on it than on his electric, BUT it felt like the strings were cutting into his fingers even though it took little effort to fret.

As a comparison, my Ryan or my son's Taylor both feel very "soft" even though the action is actually higher.

I thought it may be the higher frets but my other guitar has the same size frets and plays like a dream.

 

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Gordon.  This is quite the puzzler.  Here's my thoughts...

 

Try to find a string with a round vs. hex core.  They just feel softer. Of course this applies to wound strings only.  If it's an issue with the plain strings...try some different strings as die marks on the plain strings can make them feel like barbed wire.

 

A Charis is a pretty high end instrument.  If it were mine and if I were the original owner, I'd be addressing this question to the builder of the instrument.  Nobody knows more about the idiosyncrasies of the Charis than Bill Wise.  I presume that follow-up customer service is built into the selling price.

 

Good luck with your solution (:

[gordon]

Paul.

You're right in that the Charis is a high end, and I'll add, very well built guitar. I have discussed the issue with Bill but he really didn't have an answer either.  I like Bill's guitars. I've owned 4 so I'm intent on figuring this one out. 

I suppose to some it may feel just right and maybe I'm spoiled by how my other guitars play and feel.

 

BTW The suggestion to try a round core string is right on. I have a few sets of DR Sunbeams that I'm going to put on the Charis and see if it makes a difference.

 

Thanks for the input.