Am I losing it or what

[Christian Johnson]

Here we go again.  Brand-new Gibson LP jr.   Nut slot on high e cut too low, buzzing on 1st fret.  Customer complains action is high and it buzzes.  12th fret at 5/64, a bit high.  Now, I measured fret heights relative to fingerboard with my Stewmac caliper.  1 st between e and b strings, .0491 ".  5th same location, .055.  It's all over the place.  I thought these things were Pleked!  It's strung with 9s, customer wants 10s.  Doesn't buzz bad right now, but with lower action, I think it will.  Relief ok, about .007 or so at 7th.

1st order, new nut.  Sloppy visible glue job tells me a problem at the factory with this one.  Then what, fret level and dress?  I've had to do this before on NEW Gibsons, but, gee wiz. Guitar Center sale.  I swear, they get all the seconds.

[Hesh Breakstone]

No I don't think that you're losing it, Christian because if you are the rest of us lost it long ago....

Yep, yet another example of how a Plek is the end all to be all.....  Right....  You are not the first one to take a brand new Gibson that was supposed to have been "Pleked..." and notice high frets and frets that are all over the place. 

Sounds to me as if a proper fret dress is in order and if I was officiating at the final set-up of this guitar, which should have happened elsewhere prior to it being sold.... I would hold off on the new nut until I see how much material that the all-knowing-all-seeing Plek left proud of a level-set for the frets.  It may be that once you level the frets you could get lucky with the existing low nut slot and not have to replace the nut.  Might also be a good idea to check for lose frets too since the QC on this one seems lacking....

A fret dress may help you avoid having to score the finish on the nut and replace it on a brand new guitar. 

Think of it this way, or at least this is what I tell myself, when I encounter a brand new guitar with.... issues.... although part of me wonders where the craftsmanship was with the makers the other part of me is happy to be of service to my clients and have the opportunity to make a living.  As such, I've often wondered who of the major manufacturers I have to thank the most for my paycheck....  Might be an interesting if not contentious thread one day to compare horror stories by brand and see who is keeping us all in business the most....  On the other hand, why ruin a perfectly good thing....

PS:  All guitars buzz depending on who the ham-fisted player might be.  I watched a guy pickup his new gutiar that was just set up and he complained that it was buzzing....  The person who waited on him tried it and it did not buzz.  Then the other Luthier asked the client if he had been playing long and he replied that this was his very first guitar.  The newb then took his guitar and pulled the low e string out around two inches from the body, as if he was an archer.... and let it go and sure enough the thing indeed did buzz....  The conversation that followed both educated the client as to the idea that any guitar in the wrong hands... will buzz and got the guy to sign-up for lessons too....  A good day for all was eventually had.

[Christian Johnson]

Yep.  Thanks.  I once had a guy bring me his brand-new, custom ordered SG.  It needed a  new nut and dress.  $150 later, it played right.  He paid $2200 for the guitar!

[Russell Vance]

I'm cautious of being critical of larger manufacturers as I think we as luthiers can be a little precious about the standards we expect on mass produced cheap (and expensive) guitars.  However, as I deal with a lot of new instruments from the major shops I think I am qualified to say, in a moderate way,  that standards are reflecting the general trend to do things faster and cheaper with less skilled labor or indiscriminate machine production.

Similarly, wood species selection/quality wood and tight tolerances seem to be victims of the times and with the exception of some of the higher priced specialist/quality based producers a lot of the stuff coming out of Asia and similar off-shore/cross border sausage factories is destined for an early meeting with the fireplace or dumpster.

Plecked instruments are subject to the same problems that any instrument that travels cross-hemisphere or north-south in it's delivery journey experience.    Ebony boards and nasty cheap fingerboards being the prime offenders for squeezing out frets or having loose frets while set-ups may or may not hold over the delivery and sale period  in a most random way these days.

But Christian has just picked the exacerbating factor in this problem - production tolerances and build configurations and procedures are making set-ups and playability problems common.  The customer is unfortunately going to have to pay for quality setups on new instruments more and more as the race to the bottom on production prices continues unabated.  

Most of us with time up know who the main offenders are and it's only professional etiquette (and a few other commercial/legal realities) that prevents us giving these disgraceful charlatans a real spray.

Rusty.   

[Rodney Smith]

I like my frets at .035 to .040 high off the fingerboard. What do the forum members consider ideal?

[Paul Verticchio]

It varies.  Once you eliminate "too low from repeated fret dressings", there is no single ideal level.  What serves the player best is the best for the guitar.

Personally, I have a certain size of frets on my electrics, and a different size on each of my steel string acoustics, a different size on my nylon string instrument and yet still a different size on my basses.

The only criteria I used in choosing them was "player preference".

Hope that helps(:

[Gary Fried]

Not at all. These Gibson's coming out of the factory are terrible. I used to work close to a GC and people would bring in brand new Gibson's for playability issues all the time. The nuts they cut are amatuer at best and they glue them in like they never are going to need replacing. The plek is a joke. What good is a machine to level frets if the fingerboards they are installed in are machined terribly. The radii are inconsistent and whomever scrapes the bindings tend to get heavy handed.  My customers were always amazed when I gave them the diagnosis. But they were happy when the guitar played well afterwards. 

[Thomas James]

It's good work for us 'John Henry' types.

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi. My name is Paul and I think the current Gibson Guitar CORPORATION sucks.

If Gibson allotted half of their advertising budget to improving their "builder staff", they might make a dent in the damage done to their reputation. Their current instruments, especially considering their WTH? prices, are garbage.

I maintain that the ONLY thing keeping them in business is "blind brand loyalty".  Their motto "Only a Gibson is good enough" is a joke.

If they dropped their MSRP's & street prices by about 75%, then their quality would be commensurate with their prices.

Also, I have NO sympathy that buys an instrument from GC.  They've made, and lost, a fortune, ripping off unsuspecting customers.  They ARE the WalMart of music stores as they are responsible for putting THOUSANDS of mom & pop music stores out of business.

BTW Chris: My classic story involves a brand new $8500 R9 LPS (now OVER $10K).  It had the Plek treatment (absolutely pathetic, and it IS Gibson's fault as the machines only perform as it's programmed) and exhibited the same issues as the LPJr.  It took me 3 hours to make it playable.  Hey, at least their quality suffers as much on their low end instruments as well it does on their mortgage level high dollar guitars.

I've seen many more similar cases in the past 3 years.  And let's not forget their sticky neck lacquer issues.

They're living only upon their laurels which were established 50 years ago. For modern era Gibson's, I still recommend 1983-1999 made instruments. They experienced a resurgence of craftsmanship during that period.

BTW: Whenever I hear a customer or friend talk about getting a $2000+ Gibson, I tell them their money would be more wisely invested in a custom build from a trusted builder. For all under $2K Gibson's, I recommend their '1/3rd the price' Epiphone equivalents with a few hardware & electronic updates.  At least with an Epi, you get your money's worth.

As a repairman/tech, it's job security.  As a working player, it makes my head explode.

Nuff said,

Paul

[Hesh Breakstone]

Great post Paul - could not agree with you more AND I recently recommended to a neighbor that his kid would be better served with an EPI with a few upgrades and a proper set-up....   The kid loves the guitar and dad saved about $1,500.00!

Well at least Henry has not written any oped pieces for the WSJ lately proclaiming that he was being singled out.... again....  In the words of Tony Soprano's Mom and in consideration of ole Henry.... "Oh poor You......"  ;)