Korean Squire Strat

[Lee Gendvilas]

I have a Korean Squire Strat, serial #6115529. It came to me for polishing, a broken jack, and a fret dress/setup. I put on strings and was getting them up to pitch to do the setup and I noticed the bridge had lifted way up-see pic.

This is my first time dealing with an electric guitar with a tremolo bridge. Is this repairable or should I replace? If I replace, what would be considered a decent low dollar replacement?

Looking forward to your replys. - Lee

[Mike Kolb]

 

"I love making music.  I love repairing instruments. The only downside is that my clients are all musicians."  

       Excellent.....I've found a new mantra for the shop wall. Thank you Paul!  

[Paul Verticchio]

Feel free, Mike :)

I made a poster & it hangs by my bench. ALL musicians understand the humor and laugh out loud.

One of the most vital traits in our craft is a whimsical sense of humor :)

[William F.Eden]

I was in a luthiers friends shop a while back and as I was about to go out the door I read the poster on the back of the door .It read  THEY all think they know more than I do   BUT you and I know better. Bill.............

[Peter Poyser]

Quote: "I love making music.  I love repairing instruments. The only downside is that my clients are all musicians." 

Quote: "I was in a luthiers friends shop a while back and as I was about to go out the door I read the poster on the back of the door .It read  THEY all think they know more than I do   BUT you and I know better. Bill............."

 

Well I for one can laugh along with you, and completely get your entirely justifiable point.

However, there's another side to this altogether, and without being argumentative at all, would like to put this to you, as different opinions are the life blood of such Fora.

A close relative of mine is a Top Violin Family Instrument Luthier or Repairman, though he Makes them as well. Some time ago he had an Instrument come to him that had something of a Reputation.

Everyone had had owned it, was said by Repairmen, to have become a little screwy. (This it was expained to me is a scientific and technical term used by psychiatrists and psychologists). Basically the Famous Instrument had been in and out of Workshops all its life. But overwhelmingly it was the case that Experienced Players and Repairmen alike could actually determine nothing at all wrong with the Instrument.

It had gone from Owner to Owner down the years, and from Repairman to Repairman and Workshop to Workshop. For ALL the Owners said there was a problem. And ALL the Repairmen said there was nothing at all wrong with the Instrument. It is worth around £300,000 and has a Golden Crest on the back to signify that it once belonged to a King of England.

So I think part of the problem here was that no one wanted to mess with it too much, if they really couldn't detect anything that was actually wrong with it, lest they do more damage than good. Quite understandable in one sense. But it was a well established, very strong joke that everyone who had Owned the Instrument had gone a little askew mentally. Including the King of England who was the Original Owner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHNSAK8d3qc

 

 

When my relative got the Instrument, he simply could not find anything at all wrong with the Instrument.

He was a  Good Player himself, as well as having a reputation as a Go To Individual for Stradivarius, Guarnerius and Amati Instruments.

This was mainly because he is not simply able to Repair Instruments. Buts it's fair to say his Greater Gift, is that of being able to make the Repair completely invisible. Entirely undetectable to the eye.

He explained to the Owner he could not detect anything wrong with the Instrument, who continued to insist that was the case, and so he listened carefully to all he had to say.

The next thing he did, was to Unglue the Front of the Instrument and have a Good Look Inside. And I find it rather disappointing that other Repairmen, had not done this previously.

Instead of being So Dismissive of the Previous Owners Requests, and believing that They Knew Better than the Owners Themselves.

This is really of course, the Whole Crux of the Problem, and the Saliently Relevant Point of the Story.

 

 

What he found left him aghast!

There were Twenty Nine Cracks in the Top Back and Sides, not fully opened through the wood, thus not properly exposed to the outside of the Instrument, and there was a complete Block of Wood Entirely Missing from the Instrument Inside.

He Crafted a New Block, and Manufactured Precisely Fashioned Splints of Wood to glue into place, within each and every Crack.

 

The Owner was overjoyed with the result.

He now had an Instrument that Performed to the level he expected.

It seemed to Sound Tighter and More Together, with a Greater Cohesive Tonal Projection.

And of course much of the Mystery and Enigma surrounding this Instrument had now been entirely cleared up.

Now I have to admit. There have been times when I've had an Instrument in a Shop and everything about it seems perfect. But having got it home, have detected because of the Complete and Utter Silence, a factor that had been entirely undetectable to me earlier.

So I can understand how this can happen. But what I can't really at a Fundamental Professional Level excuse, is the Attitude of the many, many, many Repairmen, whose hands this Instrument has passed through over the years.

That have taken much the view, as earlier expressed.

 

 

Furthermore.

There is an old saying.

"Familiarity Breeds Contempt."

If Repairmen make their Clients a Joke.

It's the same underneath, as a form of Contempt.

The Musicians might laugh in a Shop at their own Expense.

But ultimately, I believe the "Sense of Being Treated with Contempt".

Will sink in, and start to get to them, and make them feel just the same way.

 

That, to me, is the Danger.

Quite apart from which, as I've demonstrated.

Sometimes, it's the Repairman, that is actually The Fool in the Story.

 

P

[Paul Verticchio]

Peter,

Thanks for calling us 'fools' in your inimitable round about way.

With all due respect, let me be the first to encourage you to find a more appropriate forum upon which you may post ramblings of this sort.

[Russell Vance]

Hi Peter,

Welcome to our forum - please seek out and read the rules regarding posts and have a good read of contemporaneous posts to determine the acceptable style tone and level expected and mostly practiced from those who contribute. The need and requirement to remain respectful and inoffensive is important as is the exercise of good manners  - especially when one does no know who one is dealing with.

Additionally, most of us are way past writing essays and lengthy tomes to vindicate our positions and seldom use the "exception to the rule" to prove the particular point one was discussing.  

It's a forum with its roots in practical, productive  and co-operative advice and dissent which aims to encourage and expand the knowledge base and applied skills of builders, repairers and players.

To that end, lengthy personal opinions and self-serving homilies are not so useful.   Also, the lack of self aggrandizement and self promotion expressed by the group can mislead newbies - I am constantly and pleasantly surprised by what both professionals and amateurs learn here from a group who, collectively, represent the peak body in <forum accessible>  general luthiery and repair advice.   Chill. 

Regards,

Rusty.

 

[Ned Knepp]

And here I though Mike was referring to the idea that most/all musicians are always flat broke. Ah well, it was pretty funny all the same.

I liked your story, Peter.  I think that everyone takes a turn at being the "fool" but I still listen to the repairmen because, in the end, who's the greater "fool" the man that thinks he knows and doesn't or the man that pays him money for his opinion?

[Ned Knepp]

Well, I tried to edit this but I guess I ran past the time limit./

I used to spend a LOT of time troubleshooting computer systems. I learned that one of the most basic principles of troubleshoot is to know what your limits are and to remain within them unless there was no alternative. Second to that is to do NOTHING that is not reversible unless or until it is absolutely necessary.  With these ideas in mind, it's very hard for me to label a repairman that didn't exceed their comfort level as a "fool". In retrospect it sounds like any of these repairman could have repaired it but I wouldn't fault them for leaving it alone. Ultimately, the instrument made it to someone that, obviously, didn't exceed his comfort level in exploring the problem more deeply and was ultimately fixed. In my opinion, it could/would have been foolish for any of the previous repairman to attempt this since they were uncomfortable in doing so. I tend to trust a repairman that knows when to say, "I'm not comfortable doing that" and, so far, I've been right to do so.

[Peter Poyser]

Quote: "I liked your story, Peter.  I think that everyone takes a turn at being the "fool" but I still listen to the repairmen because, in the end, who's the greater "fool" the man that thinks he knows and doesn't or the man that pays him money for his opinion?"

 

 

Nicely put.

The secret is consult widely in such cases.

And never pay money until the job is done, entirely to your satisfaction.

I was talking to a bunch of Engineers the other day who believe their job is finished. But I know for a fact.

They will be working for much longer than they presently anticipate, in fact right until the moment their Client is Finally Completely Satisfied.

 

Whether they like it or not.

 

 

Quote: "In my opinion, it could/would have been foolish for any of the previous repairman to attempt this since they were uncomfortable in doing so. I tend to trust a repairman that knows when to say, "I'm not comfortable doing that" and, so far, I've been right to do so."

 

That's an extremely good point indeed.

I know this, because I made the precisely the same point earlier. But in reality, they should have been capable of Repairing the Instrument.

"So I think part of the problem here was that no one wanted to mess with it too much, if they really couldn't detect anything that was actually wrong with it, lest they do more damage than good. Quite understandable in one sense. But it was a well established, very strong joke that everyone who had Owned the Instrument had gone a little askew mentally. Including the King of England who was the Original Owner."

 

As you can  read.

It's the dismissal and belittling of the Client Himself.

The Ridiculing, Thinly Disguised Contempt, in Addition to Not Fixing the Problem.

 

That adds Insult to Injury, and is the Essence of the Debate Here.

 

 

Quote: "Thanks for calling us 'fools' in your inimitable round about way.

 

Clearly.

That's not the case at all.

You would need to be roughly between 80-313 years old.

To qualify as one of those I was referring to, as the Instrument was from Circa 1700 onward.

 

 

Perhaps you failed to watch the link to the Historically Based Movie.

 

I knew you were all very maturely experienced here.

But I really never imagined anyone was that old.

They did have 300 odd years to get this right.

Wouldn't you say that was long enough?

 

The logical alternative if you do not.

 

Is that you accept that passing shoddy workmanship on to future geneartions is o.k.

You can't have this both ways. The Repairmen did not do their job properly.

This is a Self Evident, Impeccable, Axiomatic, Unassailable Truth.

I don't expect anyone to like it, I don't, but it is Objective Fact.

The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth.

 

Again.

The Alternative Logic.

That All Repairmen Always Get Everything.

Perfectly Right and are Infallible. Lacks the Crebility of Experience.

That is the Spirit of the View Expressed Earlier, and Fora exist to allow Altenative Viewpoints.

Theres nothing disrepectful at all, in pointing out that sometimes, Repairmen can make very poorly thought out decisions.

In just the same way, that the Musicians that were being Laughed About Earlier, are also equally capable of making similarly poor decisions themselves.

The idea that Poor Decison Making and Repairmen are entirely mutally exclusive altogether, is something that I've already proven, is simply not the case in any way at all.

 

Clearly, that what is really objected to.

 

P

[Ned Knepp]

Peter,

I'm sure that no one here would say that repairman are infallible. In fact there have been plenty of postings here about the mistakes that we have made.  I just disagree that all the other repairmen that didn't find the problem should be considered failures in not doing so. They also did no harm to the instrument. It seems to me that it's only in 20/20 hindsight that it seem that they should have found the issue but as you allude to in your original post, it was a very strange phenomena that cursed the violin. Obviously, the other repairmen didn't feel that the issue warranted the disassemble of such a storied instrument. I can't fault them for their caution. I don't find their inaction foolish.  From their point of view, it probably seemed just as foolish to disassemble an instrument who's value they may have worked many years to match . Personally, I think restraint in matter like this are laudable. 

[Ron Bales]

Sorry that my first post furthers a tangential thread ....

Most of my work is electronic and the majority of guitar work I do is on electrics but this experience is the same: Often the most difficult problem is identifying the problem that the customer is hearing.  Sometimes these things are subtle right up until the point that the tech or luthier hears it, then it can be glaring. I operate under the rule that he didn't come all the way down here and offer to pay my rates unless something was wrong.  Dig in and find it.

Back on topic!  The Fender Strat and it's clones, copies and variants is a very well documented instrument. You'll find setup guides online, even videos for all the common types of Strat bridges. The main distinctions are between the ones mounted with six screws in the front (vintage style) and the ones with two posts for pivots. Rather different rules apply to setting them up.

Unlike acoustics, electric guitars are a product of an era that values documentation and its there to be found. Usually from the manufacturer, though they are sometimes slow to catch up with best practice as developed in the field. They still won't be wrong.

[Paul Young]

Looks like a set of 10's on this Strat, most Strats favor 9 gauge strings, unless the player specifically wants 10 gauge.  Nothing broken.  I've put 10 gauge strings on a lot of times onto tremolo based Strats and this always happens. ( Be happy it's not a Floyd Rose tremolo.)

If you want to save the strings, start with the claw screws, then mess with the springs.

If you don't want to mess with springs or claw screws, try 9 gauge strings, to be sure use a caliper measuring tool with hundredths on it to measure the string gauge on the original strings if you want to be exact. (digital or analog will work)