proper way to shave-down saddle to lower action

[Arthur Sweeney]

Hi all.

I have a Martin D-15 Custom acoustic guitar. It has a new bone saddle,

but the action is too high on the guitar. There is plenty of height on the saddle

for me to shave it down, but I have  never done this before, and I'd like to ask

what the proper way to do this is, and, is this a job for a non-luthier like myself?

Thank you.

 

[Tim Mace]

Keep the one you have and get some new material to get good at it...since you're lowering you can't harm anything but make sure your frets are at optimal performance' level' to keep buzz out...JMO.Some believe having a summer and winter saddle is a good option.

[harrison phipps]

I shave saddles by grinding material off the bottom with a hand-cranked grinding wheel - its fitted with a wooden wheel and a 6 inch diameter self adhesive backed sanding disk. Get the neck to the proper relief first and set the action at the nut.  Measure the distance between the top of the 12th fret and the bottom of both E strings.  To lower the action by 1/64 at the 12th fret you need to lower the height of the saddle by 2/64. If you have not done this before, go a little at a time because if you get it too low & it buzzes, you will need a new saddle.

[Paul Verticchio]

Hi Arthur.

It sounds like you finally got the guitar you've been dreaming about. Good call as the 15 series is probably Martin's best value. They're very nice instruments. Now, on to the saddle:

The first thing you need to do is to make sure the neck is properly adjusted. If it has too much back-bow, that'll give the impression of "too high action".

Once the neck has been, or has been determined to be, properly adjusted, you need to measure the action at the 12th fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. You'll also need to come up with a measurement for the action you want.

If you can provide those measurements, I should be able to talk you through the rest of the process.

BTW: lowering the action on my D-28 on 1970 was my first DIY tweek.  It's a great place to start and I'm sure you can do it.

Best of luck,

Paul (-:

[Mike Kolb]

Harrison & Paul hit on important points... figure out HOW high the actions is, compared to where you want it to be... then remember that if you want to take the 12th-fret string-height down by, say .020", then you'll have to take off .040" at the saddle to get there.  And, yes, take it off the bottom. 

Also good to make sure the saddle top is the same radius as the fingerboard, as that sometimes can get lost in the "fussing":)   If you elect to make a new saddle, save the old one as a "safety".  Should be a fun first job. Nice guitar, BTW.

[Mark Pollock]

To piggyback on Mike's radius comment, make sure that the saddle you have actually DOES match the radius of the fretboard - I run into quite a few that are way too flat. This will give some nice buzzing on the middle strings, and high action on the top and bottom strings, resulting in raised blood pressure and frustration.

 

Check the radius, check that the neck is truly straight, then get to work.

 

And, to state what to some people is obvious, but other don't know - check the radius from UNDERNEATH the strings, not on top of them.

[Magnus Hultin]

If it is a drop in saddle (which I think is the case on the 15-series) its easiest to remove material from the bottom of the saddle. A long saddle has to be shaved from the top to avoid misallignment with the bridge in the outer ends of the saddle.

 

To get an optimal result I think each string need to be lowered individually by shaving the saddle top until You reach the action at 12th fret You aim at. The result will most often be a saddle with a sligthly flatter top radius than the fretboard radius, which is logical given the wider string spacing at the saddle compared to the nut.

Saving the original saddle and working on a duplicate is agood idea. It´s good to have a way back.

 

[Mark McLean]

Like everyone has said, you take material off the bottom of the saddle - but it is important to keep the bottom of the saddle dead flat so that it keeps good contact with the bottom of the saddle slot.  Here is how I do that.  Get a slab of glass or a ceramic tile.  They provide a nice hard surface that you can assume is dead flat because they don't tend to warp.  I use a 12 inch square ceramic tile left over from a bathroom renovation.  Place a piece of medium grit sandpaper (e.g. 150) on the tile/glass and rub the bottom of the saddle on it in the direction of the long axis.  Be careful to keep it flat and don't roll it off the perpendicular.  It is a good idea to use a sharp point pencil to mark a line that you want to sand to.  Take it easy and err on the side of taking too little, not too much.  You can always take a bit more, but you can't put it back.  Well, actually you can recover from sanding too much off by putting a hardwood shim in the slot. 

 

One more trick.  When you want to remove the saddle without the hassle of completely removing the strings - put a capo on about half way up the neck and then loosen the strings enough to be able to take the pins out of the bridge and remove the ball ends.  The other end can stay in the nut and connected to the tuning posts ready for a quick retightening when you are finished.

cheers 

Mark

[Paul Hostetter]

I would never take material off the bottom of a saddle. Good saddles are machined to very fine tolerances, and the slot in the bridge also has a carefully machined bottom. The fit of those two surfaces is critical, and it's nearly impossible to take the bottom surface down without compromising it. I see this all the time. You need a vacuum fit to get a good signal. I've seen really supposedly high-end pro shops do that slab of glass thing and never get it right. Often the saddle ends up resting on one edge because of a lack of 90 degrees front-to-back, but more often the bottom surface ends up with a slight arc end to end. Getting all that right by hand is really difficult. 

 

Paul V's advice to make sure the neck relief is adjusted properly before doing anything else is excellent. Tim's advice to get another saddle blank is a good one. I'd only mess with the original if it was all you had, and in that case would take down the top. 

[harrison phipps]

Good to hear that someone else understands the importance of the saddle and its proper fit in the bridge route.  I tell my clients that the saddle and bridge unit is the transmitter for the strings to speak to the soundboard - a bad fit of the saddle means bad reception and less that optimal sound.  This is why I never rely on anyone's attempt at this & do it myself.  Arthur said the D-15 had a new bone saddle, this was made by someone as Martin uses plastic (or Tusk - which is not too bad but still plastic).  How do you know his saddle was machined on the bottom?  I too have seen numerous saddles with awful fit, unless it is a toneless cheap guitar worth less that a piece of bone, I recommend my clients hire me to make a proper one.

[Mark McLean]

So, Paul and Harrison, is it possible to make a good saddle and bridge combo myself.  I am building guitars and routing the saddle slot myself, and shaping a saddle blank.  I understand that a poor fit here robs the instrument of power and tone.  I think I am getting both pieces flat and well matched - but I am doing it by hand and by eye.  What can I do to get it better?

[Ron Ellison]

It should be fairly simple to make a frame that holds a saddle in a vertical position and avoids the abrasive paper.

[Arthur Sweeney]

I give up, I am taking the guitar to a luthier. I don't trust myself on an expensive Martin,

and I have seen conflicting advice in this forum, so I am confused anyway.

I do appreciate all the comments though. This website has always been helpful to me.